The 5:2 thread number 36 - Fighting (& losing) the Battle of the Bulge? Eating too much junk? 5:2 is a healthy, sustainable way to achieve & maintain your goal weight. Join our friendly support group!

[BigChocFrenzy]

The continuing thread for those of us following the 5:2 fast or other forms of fasting such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8.
The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012 and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat normally - or approximately your Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE - see explanation below). 4:3 is the same except you fast on 3 days in the week. Alternate-day fasting (ADF) is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. 16:8 is another form where you stick to only eating in an 8 hour window each day, therefore fasting for 16 hours each day.
By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.
You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.
WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.
MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website or app many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.
TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a TDEE calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.
NFD = Non fast day
NSV/LSV = Non scale victory/Lifestyle (change) victory
Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check it out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!
Lurkers and new starters: please just jump in and post - you'll find a lot of support here and we’re a friendly bunch.
Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:
Other Threads
All our previous threads can be found by browsing through the fasting section of the site.
Tips and Links : Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!
Inspirational: eatriskier’s thread has some lovely inspiring stories which are worth checking out if you want some motivation to get started or keep going through a plateau. Please add your own too.
Recipes: frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!
Exercise: bigchocfrenzy has an incredibly informative and helpful exercise and fitness thread for discussion and advice on combining 5:2 with an exercise regime.
Maintaining: If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.
Other links
This is a BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon - link to that programme here.
This Telegraph article comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting.
This blog post gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.
This link nicely demonstrates that there are many body ‘right’ body shapes and types, because what we are actually aiming for is low body fat for fitness and health.
A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")
Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this article appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI. (Though anecdotal evidence from these long-running threads may suggest otherwise…)
A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.
A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!
Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this way of life!

I am taking six kids on public transport tomorrow morning so don't want to feel wobbly. I'll have breakfast and lunch and skip dinner. I have a friends coming for lunch on Sunday too. I really don't want to sabotage the last 10 days of 5:2 and mindful eating.

Peplum, yes! I have. I took measurements (waist, hips , thighs, calf etc) in early dec, and dd 's waist measuring skills put me at a 5.5-cm loss since then! So very very pleased. It's really great not being bloated all the time ...

You people who are shorter than you think - you know that you lose a little height during the day? As BigChoc deduced, I claim 5'1" but DH measured me first thing in the morning recently - checking how far DD has to catch me up yet and I was a lofty 5'1-and-a half!

Hi all, wow it's just taken me 45mins to catch up from yesterday. All well worth it though and it's kept me out of the kitchen. Well done on the losses, SV's & NSV's.

If it's been a bad day for you just draw a line under today and start afresh tomorrow? NFD here and managed to keep under TDEE.

Off to try G&B cocoa cos thats the kind of rock n roll lifestyle I lead

See you all tomorrow

bssh people are talking about upping calories on the maintainers thread wow you have to love this diet woe

fuckwittery well done on your fast day. I have a baby too but this one is sleeping for now at least

Planning to have home made pizza tomorrow - looking forward to it. Toddler should have fun making it.

I just read the Mindful Eating of chocolate link. I mentally went through the stages. By 11 I had melted chocolate on my fingers. Mmmm licking chocolate of fingers....

I know women especially can lose several inches height in old age, so I wondered if some of us could lose an inch between 20 and 50 say.
Alarming thought. I prefer Errol's explanation !

Yes, that link could start untoward choc urges in some folk, Errol.

However, I already scoffed 40g of 90% Lindt after lunch, which is a massively bigger choc hit than 150g of mere milk choc and not very moreish.
You have to be a strong woman to take your choc neat

My mum is only 19 years older than me and used to be the same height as me. These days (I am 47) she is several inches shorter than me! Gasp! I hope that doesn't mean I will end up like that???

Why does it happen? What makes shrinkage happen as women age?

Just found this article:
"Research has shown that most people shrink from age 30 to 70, with men getting about an inch shorter and women getting about two inches shorter, the Early Show reported. And when people hit age 80, men and women lose another inch on top of that.

After age 40, it's not uncommon to start getting just a little bit shorter. But shrinking too much or too fast could be a sign of health problems, research shows. "

and:

"The reason why people shrink as they age is because the little gel-like discs in your back get more and more squished with time, thereby making you shorter, the Early Show reported.

And as people age, bones may also shrink both in density and size, which could also add to the shrinkage, according to the Mayo Clinic.

To keep from getting too short too fast, avoid smoking cigarettes, drinking caffeine or alcohol, taking steroids and extreme dieting, the Wall Street Journal reported. Instead, eat healthily, get adequate vitamin D and calcium and exercise regularly."

So there's another really good reason to exercise. I am already short enough (5ft 3)!

I had a NFD yesterday and was so pleased when I put everything into MFP at the end of the day and still had 140 calories left. So I had a square of my super-foods slice: made from coconut oil,butter, cacao,almond butter,macadamia nuts,coconut flakes,maca powder, acai powder and dried blueberries. I chuck it all into the food processor.So yum, no sugar (apart from the blueberries),filling and full of great stuff. Love it. I know it is high calories due to the fats, but you only need a tiny bit. Some days that is all I have for breakfast and it keeps me going.

We've been invited to a Curry dinner party tonight, so I will take it easy on the calories all day, get some exercise and really enjoy the dinner party with a glass or two of .

Sun is shining, forecast is 27 dgrees (celcius). Going to the beach!

Happy days.

I've always measured at 5'1" so I seem to have avoided shrinking yet.

Another reason for height reduction may be posture-related - I'm not sure how the bent-over 'dowagers hump' thing occurs but I'd take a guess that staying active for as long as possible helps.

Thanks, hopeful. I suspected height loss didn't suddenly start at age 65 or 70.
Most of us wouldn't notice an inch loss in height, without measuring, whereas an inch on/off the waist affects the jeans.

My poor dm lost about half a foot in the space of 6m. She was very ill and ended up in a coma that accelerated her tiny touch of osteoporosis to mega awful osteoporosis and is now much shorter. Being we're an Irish family and given I was always berated for being the short arse (I am average height ffs) I now take the well received mick out of her. But it's been a horrible adjustment for the poor woman in reality. Don't mock the gradual loss guys. But, like your weight, keep a periodical eye on it.

I didn't mean mock, I meant fear.

Where is my facepalm emoticon???

Maybe hanging from a bar could uncompress the vertebrae, or stop them getting worse. Good for arm strength too.
No, you debauched bunch: I meant an exercise bar not the kind of bar you lot are thinking of with

Exactly what I'm about to post on the exercise thread, BCF.

Since beginning my chin-up exercises at the end of November, I think I've grown a bit.

When I began, I had to use an Argos catalogue on the fourth step of the stairs to reach the first rail of the banisters upstairs - and I had to stand on tiptoe. When I wanted to get down, I'd flail around with my feet to reach the catalogue.

Now, after 7 weeks of regular chin-ups I can reach the rail standing with my feet flat on the step.*

I was 5'7" when I was younger - and I've been an inch shorter than that in later life. I'll get my wife to measure me in the morning.

*For those of you not following the exercise thread, I've gone from being barely able to hang on to the rail in the beginning, to doing three sets of 10 pull-ups of about 15cm.

Bumblebee I used to go to Pilates and can 'grow' a couple of inches just by standing up straight.

Breadandwine that's incredible progress!

I'm now half an inch taller than I was in my 20s. I think I just stand better than I used to!

Like the thought 'summer bodies are made in winter' Mazzle.
Fed up here. NFD but I want to do loads of tidying and cleaning so my dd can bring a friend back from Uni. When I start tidying I often want to go to the food cupboard. Plus DH is being a nerd.

Another lb off here to that's 7lbs of my December gain gone. Tbh, if I only lose another 3lbs by the end of the month then I'll be happy as those other two lbs had been a fleeting loss. Also aiming to eat mindfully today. I will channel TiP and Cuckoo and repeat No Snacking and Drink Water all day.
B&W - that's amazing on the chin ups
Mazzle - I've lost 2.5 stone in the last 18mths and have gone from a EE shoe fitting to an E. I have also gone back from a size 6 to a 5.5 in many shoes but it depends on the shape of the shoe.

According to the 50p height/weight machine in Boots, I'm 3 pounds lighter now than I was just over a week ago :)

I'm suspecting water weight, totm etc but I'll gladly take it :)

My FDs have been more like diet days than fast days, I think ca 800 cals. I'm being careful on NFDs too.

Date and muesli teabread.

Prep time 15 minutes plus 30 minutes soaking.
Cooking time 1 hour
Makes 1 loaf (serves 10-12)

225g/8oz pitted dried dates, roughly chopped.
150ml/1/4 pint strong hot tea, strained.
85g/3oz butter, softened.
85g/3oz light brown soft sugar.
1 egg, beaten.
225g/8oz self-raising white flour.
1 teaspoon baking powder.
85g/3oz muesli

Place the dates in a bowl, pour over the tea and leave to soak for 30 minutes.

Preheat the oven to 180C, 350F, Gas mark 4. Grease and line a 900g/2lb loaf tin and set aside.

Cream the butter and sugar together in a bowl until pale and fluffy, then beat in the egg.

Sift the flour and baking powder into another bowl and fold into the creamed mixture. Add the muesli, dates and soaking liquid and stir to mix well.

Transfer the mixture to the loaf tin and level the surface. Bake for about an hour, or until it is risen and firm to the touch. A fine skewer inserted into the centre should come out clean.

Remove the teabread from the oven and allow to cool in the tin for a few minutes, then turn out onto a wire rack. Serve warm or cold in slices.

I haven't made this one I don't think. Hope it is nice.

VOILA!!!!