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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 31/01/2014 13:32

IMO the best way to do balancing is such that if it goes tits up (or rather, down) you land in water. Grin

Spanglemum · 31/01/2014 14:28

Strange question, but when you do a push up/press up, how far down should you go? Should your chest touch the floor?
Thanks!

MazzleDazzle · 31/01/2014 15:13

Spangle I go as low as I can, which isn't very!

I have a question. After four weeks of working out I've lost just under 10lb and 30cm. Yay! Every part of my body is slimmer, except around my lower torso, level with my tummy button (so now, surely, it must look bigger by comparison to the rest of me, which has shrunk!). I've had 2 emergency sections and have a 'bib' round my lower stomach. How do I tighten and trim this part of my body?

Lazysuzanne · 31/01/2014 15:45

Spangle, a full press up is from arms fully extended to nose touching the floor, then you have those partial high rep style press ups which are usually done with less than half of the full range of motion.

Obviously it's much easier to do the partials but you have to start somewhere!

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2014 17:39

Spangle
Tricep pressup .... elbows graze waist and nose touches floor
normal pressup .... hand spread such that when body lowers, forearms are vertical, nose touches floor in front of fingertip line

or just try to go about halfway down!

on the bosu I have lower my nose - managed 30 again today

Bigchoc
I do have good balance - today on the bosu I managed stand on one leg and hold the other heel out level with my shoulder - both legs straight - and count for ten
standing on the medicine ball is really a buildup to do a mini squat with core constantly adjusting
standing on swiss ball - will leave till my calf is better but once up its surprisingly stable as its soft so feet can dig in.

Lazysuzanne · 31/01/2014 17:51

Generally speaking elbows pointing backwards and hands at nipple (rather than shoulder) level when doing press ups (or chest press) is less likely to have adverse effects on shoulder and elbow joints.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2014 21:03

LOWER ABS for Mazzle

Classic for lower abs is the BicycleCrunch

This full routine for lower abs may be a bit advanced in places, but check out the YummyHunk

I find this v good: Situps with 1 leg stretched out 2" above the floor, the other leg raised with knee bent at 90 degrees. I do sets of 20 each leg. Start at 5.

Less difficult - Leg extensions: Raised legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Extend each leg in turn, so that it is parallel to the floor and about 2" above it. Build up to 12 reps per side, 2 sets

ErrolTheDragon · 31/01/2014 21:11

BC - ah, interested to see those abs exercises are all asymmetric, this presumably helps keep the back in a good position. The JM dvds have some abs moves in which both legs are lowered, I find that this makes the back arch up .... I had been wondering whether to put something under my butt to keep the pelvis tilted and back flat, but maybe would be better to stick to one leg at a time (there are some of these, and bicycle crunches in the dvds too)

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2014 21:38

I occasionally do 10 reps of the exercise lowering both legs at once, but I also noted it tends to strain the back.
So, as you say, my personal recommendation is to do the asymmetric exercises. However, I know trainers like the time efficiency of training both sides at once.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/01/2014 22:09

Tip --> "on the bosu I managed stand on one leg and hold the other heel out level with my shoulder - both legs straight - and count for ten"
Shock Balance and contortion.
Have you ever crashed onto your nose in the gym ?

TalkinPeace · 31/01/2014 22:12
Grin I'll get a friend to take pics next week : nope, I've not fallen over in years ... I've got tres silly balance ... todays game was down dog, cross right leg under, grab with left hand and stretch ... I like to move slowly, others move quick
MazzleDazzle · 31/01/2014 23:19

Thank you BigChoc Thanks

I'm determined to see a difference in my lower stomach when I have my next body analysis in 4 weeks time!

Funny you should mention lower back strain. I noticed this when doing ab work this week in class. Think one leg at a time is def. the way to go for me.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2014 05:37

Mazzle Well done. 30 com in 4 weeks is brilliant.

BetsyBell · 01/02/2014 10:46

Not much to report - still going to Tae Kwon Do 2x per week though 1 lesson is more about forms so less strenuous. Am doing a bit here and there with my new weights and my press ups are gradually improving too!

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 01/02/2014 13:21

Hi everyone. Its been ages since Ive been on here.

Well today I have an appointment at the gym I joined midweek regarding getting me a program. Im thinking of asking for loads of weight based work with a bit of cardio thrown in. Im not sure about the actual weights as it seems to be very testorone heavy in the gym and Im a bit nervous. though Im happy to use the weight machines.

Ive not been doing as much exercise as I should have been doing recently. Then again my 5:2 is pretty much a 6:1 with 16:8 throughout my NFDs. I need to get motivated again, Im hoping a gym membership will achieve this especially as its only 10 minutes up the road. The showers there are lovely. Ive been to gyms before where the shower area has not been that nice. Also they are refrubishing the pool/sauna/steam room area. I love a steam room. Definately something to look forward to after my workout in future.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/02/2014 20:16

Biscuits Your new gym sounds lovely and only 10 mins away, so no excuses now !

Good to hear you are planning some weights; hopefully some pressups and squats too.
Also, ask them to plan some HIIT for you, e.g. spin. It works well with 5:2 and is a very effective way to increase fitness.
If they have a TaeBo or Zumba class, you might like that for your cardio as well

Let us know what your program is, so we can nag encourage you.
Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2014 15:19

DANGER : Anyone taking OxyELITE Pro (fat loss / fitness supplement) - STOP!

I received a free sample with some sports goods and just now Googled it:
it's been withdrawn from sale in the USA after 29 cases of liver failure and several deaths in Hawaii alone LiverFailure

Before taking ANY supplement, do Google it. Companies may continue supplying goods that have been banned as dangerous in other countries.

BiscuitsAreMyDownfall · 02/02/2014 22:00

Well I wasnt that impressed with the guy at the gym. He was very like what are your aims, so I told him to tone up. He then asked what I enjoyed. I wasnt going to lie, so I told him I prefer cardio to weights, but I know that weights are what is needed for me. He then just told me to have 10 mins on cross trainer, 10 mins on bike and 10 on treadmill. Then gave me 15 mins or so worth of weight exercises. He didn't tell me what to do on the cardio machines, just to use them for 10 mins a time.

I get where he was coming from with getting me to do what I enjoy most because if I had an hour of things I really dont enjoy like weights it will put me off going.

So HIIT on the cross trainer, bike and treadmill. What do you suggest BigChoc? I was thinking one of those programs that has intervals of resistance for the cross trainer and bike. Where you have a low resistance for 2 minutes than a high resistance for another 2 minutes and repeat.

Today I went out and did a 7 and half mile run. After all I am still training for a half Marathon in May.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2014 22:23

Biscuits That trainer seems very lazy. It's fine to say do things you like, but he really should have been more specific about what to do on each apparatus.

My suggestions

  • Treadmill: It's onconvenient to keep changing manually, so choose an interval program. Depending on the machine they should have a few choices for intervals, so you don't do the same one each time. Say a hill climb or one which varies the speed.
  • Cross-trainer and bike: same idea for each. Youcan set manually to a high resistance and work flat out for a period, then recover with a low speed and resistance, same period of time.
Try different intervals on different days, to keep your body guessing: 20 second blasts one day, 1 minute another day, or 2 mins
BigChocFrenzy · 02/02/2014 22:39

Weights
Don't waste your time training the small muscle groups like biceps.
Invest those 10 mins in the major muscle groups, that burn calories when you work them and then when they are built up a bit, help maintain your TDEE when you lose weight.

So you don't get bored, do these for 2 mins each, as many days as you can

  • pressups: try the XFit type
  • squats: bodyweight only
  • rowing: you can either use dumbbells or try a machine, if you like
  • deadlift: but don't lower the dumbbells below your knees, for now

Do on alternate days:

  • plank: start at say 2 x 15 secs
  • forward lunges: bodyweight only

Efficient Gym Time
Don't waste your time at the gym. Concentrate on working out as hard as you can. Those 10 mins each for weights, bike, treadmill should actually be working, not wandering around machines or dumbbells / chatting / drinking coffee or shakes.
You should not have breath to natter while working out.
If you spot a nice hunk, talk to him afterwards in the coffee area
Smile

Megrim · 02/02/2014 23:04

BBC 2 is repeating the Horizon exercise documentary RIGHT NOW.

Breadandwine · 03/02/2014 00:13

Thanks, Megrim. The tennis must have finished early.

Here's an update on my exercise regime:
The big news is that, thanks to BCF's way of doing press-ups, I can now do 3 sets of 20 proper press-ups - lifting my hands up between each one. I'll let you know when I start slapping the floor!

Pull-ups - I was a bit previous on my 15cm earlier. I think that must have been at the top of a bit of a swing. It's quite difficult to measure but I'm definitely lifting a bit higher and I'm now doing sets of 12.

3 x 60 secs plank - which I do straight away after the press-ups.

Kettlebell exercises are getting easier - wondering whether to up the number of sets to 4 or go to 5kg. Mazzle - you got me thinking about that. How're you doing with your pull-ups?

ErrolTheDragon · 03/02/2014 10:09

Done my first day of level 3 shred - some plank-based moves I could only do on knees or for the side abs raise with lower leg bent I could do properly this time. Smile

Did my 3x14 wide arm, 3xnarrow arm inclined press-ups (same level as last week). Realised that one of my problems was fear of failing and bashing my face into the table/worktop ... a strategically placed teacosy made a huge psychological difference! Grin (teacosy on the edge, not on my face, just to clarify....)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2014 11:12

Woohoo, BreadandWine , you are getting stronger all the time !

Yes, once you get the knack of press-ups, you can start doing quite a lot. For most exercises, one would then say increase weight, but bodyweight press-ups are sooo good for you, I just do lots of sets in a session, sometimes with 30 reps, but spread out between the other lifting exercises like barbells or kettles.

Kettle: here I would recommend buying a new 5- 7 kg. You'll probably still need the 3kg for some one-armed exercises, such as the Turkish Getup

BigChocFrenzy · 03/02/2014 11:15

Errol You are making great progress too.
I totally agree with psychological measures; I am absolutely paranoid about falling, especially damaging face or joints.
Tea cosy as training equipment - creative, lol !
Grin

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