Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Exercise & Fitness: Advice and information for those following 5:2 / IF (Intermittent Fasting)

999 replies

BigChocFrenzyAteYourReindeer · 31/12/2013 01:51

Why Exercise ?

Maintaining a normal bodyweight and taking regular exercise are 2 major areas of life which we can address to improve our health.

Fasted training, i.e. training on FDs, seems to increase the benefits of both training and IF, but it is advisable to first become used to fasting

Exercise alone does not produce significant weight loss for most people. However it can improve body shape and can help overcome weight plateaux.

Regular exercise helps reduce the risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, heart diesease, high blood pressure, some cancers, osteoporosis, dementia, depression.

  • Try to train regularly, building up to 3-6 days per week.
  • Develop a training routine you enjoy and want to continue long term.
  • Regular exercisers gain the greatest benefits over their lifetime and they can minimise biological aging, i.e. "Bend the Aging Curve" BendAge

WARNING: If you are very obese or have health issues, check with your GP that you are able to start exercising and also if there are types of exercise you should avoid.

Fat and Metabolism

Body fat is highly active tissue which secretes hormones (e.g. leptin, adiponectin) and microphages (which cause inflammation) directly into the bloodstream. These substances can significantly affect metabolism & weight and increase the risk of diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, some cancers.
E.g ref and ref

Visceral fat is more dangerous than subcutaneous - a study found that liposuction removing up to 20lb of the latter did not improve health indicators. Visceral fat needs to be reduced by exercise and a calorie deficit, preferably both together.

Hormesis

"What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger"
Hormesis Mattson and Hormesis can be applied to exercise, analagous to how 5:2 /IF uses it for nutrition.
Alternating between “extremes” of feast and fast (like 5:2) or intense training and rest, makes the body more resilient.

The intermittent stress of lifting an extreme weight or performing at high speed for a short period pushes the body to overcompensate and prepare for an even greater future challenge HormesisTrain and AntiFragile
The following recovery period avoids damage from over-stressing.

INEFFICIENT: Low-Medium Intensity Steady state Cardio

Steady state cardio is not necessary and should only be a small part of your weekly cardio, unless it is all you can manage to do.

Only high intensity exercise recruits the fast-twitch muscle fibers that have the most glycogen (stored glucose). Steady State Cardio does not empty the glucose stores in those particular muscles. Hence, the circulating glucose has nowhere to be stored — except as bodyfat.

Moreover, the muscle cells will lose their sensitivity to insulin and become inflamed by the high levels of insulin, which the body has produced to deal with the high levels of circulating glucose. The body mortars this inflammation with LDL cholesterol.

Hence, those exercising only at low-medium intensity are at greater risk of cardiovascular problems than high intensity exercisers SteadyState (pp. 31-34).
Obviously, non-exercisers have the highest risk of all.

RECOMMENDED TYPES of Exercise

HIIT cardio and resistance training / weight lifting are recommended to boost the effect of 5:2/IF, to increase weight loss, reduce body fat, retain muscle and maintain TDEE / BMR.

Anyone who is not specialising in a sport at a high level should aim to do a variety of training: HIIT cardio, resistance and flexibility.

HOW to Exercise

The cardio machines and the girlie pink dumbbells that gyms push are inadequate to significantly improve fitness or burn fat.
However, 10 mins walk on a treadmill or outside is beneficial after training, especially after heavy lifting.
Scientists have proved that cardio and resistance training can be done in the same session, without detriment to either, e.g. TrainBoth

Whether you join a gym or train at home or in the park:

  • Train as intensively as your time, health and fitness level allow.
  • Do not remain in your comfort zone, or you will not improve.
  • You are supposed to drip sweat and pant heavily !
However, a brisk 30 mins daily walk plus 5 mins hoop is better than nothing and if done regularly will bring some health benefits.

Flexibility

  • Stretching for 5 mins before and after each training session is recommended
  • Yoga and Pilates classes can be added if additional flexibility training is desired. Some such classes also provide additional strength / toning.

HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training)

HIIT is an exercise strategy which alternates brief intervals of high intensity exercise with less-intense recovery periods. Time intervals may be equal or different and their length and the number of sets depends on fitness level.

Start with one session per week and build up to a maximum of 3 (no more).

HIIT is very time-efficient, producing the greatest fitness benefit in the least time (the advantage of hormesis). However, beginners should build up gradually, starting say with just 1 or 2 intervals.

Scientists have proved that HIIT burns more fat than steady state lower intensity exercise and speeds up the metabolism, which helps burn more calories for up to 48 hrs.

HIIT increases both aerobic and anaerobic endurance

HIIT can be applied to cardio: e.g. cycling, running, skipping, jumping, mountain climbs
or to bodyweight exercises, e.g. squatting, situps, burpees, pressups

Most gyms offer classes, e.g.
spinning, circuit training, CrossFit, Tabata, Fartlek(Fartlek = HIIT with irregular intervals)
which each use a form of interval training.
These classes require less planning and are often more enjoyable (music, socialising, equipment) than training on your own.

A typical HIIT session could consist of:

  • 4 mins warmup
  • 8 sets of intervals
  • 4 mins cooldown
and last 12-60 mins in total.

Recovery time is usually half the high intensity time.
Examples of typical interval sets are:

  • 20 seconds high intensity + 10 secs recovery OR
  • 40 sec high + 20 sec low OR
  • 60 sec high + 30 sec low

Detailed HIIT example plans: (scroll down to Workouts section and ignore whether entitled "cutting" or "bulking") BodyBuild

RESISTANCE Training / LIFTING

This helps retain muscle mass during weight loss and hence to maintain TDEE.

It is easier in a gym, especially re equipment. You can lift in the weights area on your own OR in a pump class.
Whether @ gym or home, before you start lifting, have a few lessons with a trainer to learn the correct form and avoid injury.

It is best not to train the same muscle groups 2 days in succession, so have rest days, or cardio, or train different muscle groups on different days.
Try to build up to weight training for 30-60 mins twice per week.

WARNING
The "Heavy" lifting described here should not exceed bodyweight unless you are really fit and expert.
Women who have given birth and / or are aged 40+ have a higher risk of pelvic floor / prolapse injuries when lifting heavy than young non-mums.

Main Lifting / Resistance Exercises

Reps = the number of repetitions in a set of a particular lifting exercise
Sets are normally separated by brief rests
E.g. you might do 3 sets each of 12 reps all of the same exercise.

If you have access to dumbbells / barbells, then for maximum effect, work the large muscle groups. Alternatively, use bodyweight.
squats
bent-over rows (press button "female")
Behind neckPress (press button "female")
dead lift
The abs and smaller muscle groups will automatically be trained by these exercises, but you can add optionally 20 mins weekly abs exercises:

Basic Abs

  • Situps: build up to 3 sets of 20 reps. Try to put your arms in front of you, instead of behind your head
  • Angled situps: with one ankle resting on the opposite knee. 2 sets of 15 each side
  • Plank: 3 sets, each 45 secs
  • Leg extensions: legs bent 90 degrees, so your lower legs are parallel to the floor. Stretch each leg in turn, parallel to the floor. 3 sets of 10.

Lifting To increase Strength Rather than Muscle Mass
Lift as heavy as you can, low reps, with 1 minute rest between sets
e.g. 5 sets x 5 reps each, i.e. totalling 25 lifts.

Lifting To Build More Muscle
With a lower weight, do 3 sets x 8-20 reps, i.e. totalling 24-60 lifts.

Additionally, or if you don't have heavy barbells, use your bodyweight.
Example to build up to:

  • 3 sets of 30 press ups, proper ones, see detail below +.
  • 40 deep squats, with thighs parallel to floor, i.e. ATG (Arse to Grass) see ++.
  • 3 set of 8 reps inverted pullup /row Inverted OR assisted chin-ups on a gym machine OR full chin-ups if you can manage them (Amazon have pullup bars which fit over doors from about £15)

+Press ups

  • It is best to keep attempting one proper pressup rather than doing several dozen girlie ones with your knees on the floor.
  • Once you can do one pressup, you will soon be able to build up to 5, then 10 etc.
  • Tip: keep the abs rigid, so strong abs are as important as strong shoulders & arms.

++Squats

  • Are the best exercise for the large muscle group in bum and thighs.
  • Basic principle: It is like having a pee on a public loo - get your bum down low and pointing to the rear, but not actually touching the seat.
-Lean back on your heels, so that weight is on them, not on your toes. -For bodyweight squats, bring your arms forward -Keep your back straight, but angled slightly forward, not vertical.
  • Go down as far as you can without knee pain.

CAUTION With Leangains-Type Protocols

5:2 is an easier WOL than other forms of IF, with most days being NFDs during which the body can recuperate.

Some women have had injuries or health problems with very tough LeanGains-type protocols, which combine ADF or daily 16:8 with fasted lifting of multiples of body weight.

Some women have achieved excellent results on LeanGains-type; others had problems after a few months, or even from the start. Particularly at risk are women with very low (11-18%) body fat, possibly already with irregular menstruation, or with EDs.

Post-menopausal women seem to do well, as do men, presumably due to differences in hormones, body fat %, metabolism.

RECOMMENDATION: Don't lift more than your bodyweight and mostly lift well below it.

Running versus Walking

Walking is beneficial psychologically, is easy on the knee joints and has some physical benefits.

However, at speeds of 5mph or faster, running will burn more calories per mile than walking Ref . Typical values:

  • For running (5 mph and higher): Total calories burned per mile = .75 x body weight (in pounds); net calories (see ++) burned per mile = .63 x weight.
  • For walking (3 to 4 mph): Total calories burned per mile = .53 x body weight; net calories burned per mile = .30 x weight.

++ Note: net calories = total calories - cals the body would have burned at rest (calculated from BMR)

AVOID OSTEOPOROSIS

We start losing bone density from about age 35. Women can lose a great deal before, during and after menopause.

Other risk factors: Smoking, heavy drinking, inactive lifestyle, very slim build, family history of osteoporosis, longterm steroid use.

To retain bone strength and avoid a painfully disabled old age, start now:
Ideally weight bearing exercises that load the bone along its length

Impact exercise E.g. walking, running, jumping, skipping rope, step class, hitting a heavy punch bag.

Lifting: squats, press-ups, bench press, overhead press etc.

Squats are much better than lunges: The weight in a squat is transmitted down along the spine, through the hip, and down along the bones of the leg, whereas in a lunge, it is transmitted across the shinbone and puts pressure on the knee joint.

Cycling normally does NOT increase bone density as it does not really load bones along their length. A study found that cyclists who did no other exercise had low bone density because of the combo of this with their training Osteo

KETTLEBELLS

Useful exercise descriptions and videos: Kettle
Recommended for beginners (and shown in the link):
. Two-handed swing
. Sumo Deadlift
. Turkish Getup
. Swing
. Clean and Jerk
. Press

How to Choose a Gym (if you want to)

  • gym offpeak can be as cheap as £30 p.m. as you don't need expensive pools, sauna, juice bars, massage etc.
  • within journey time 20 mins
  • plenty of classes at times to suit you
  • creche if needed
  • don't bother with expense of a personal trainer.

Start with these classes if available:

  • weekly spin, because you can set your own resistance and speed 45-60 mins
  • any additional interval training class, see earlier for list.
  • weekly pump 60 mins
  • weekly abs class 15-30 mins

======================================

CALCULATORS:
Estimate your fitness age: FitAge
Estimate Vo2Max iTunes App: Vo2APP
Body Fat Calculator:BF
Healthy Body Fat Percentages at Different Ages:
HealthyBF
TDEE with detailed activity times: TDEE

More links: 52FastDietForum-Fasting & Exercise 52exercise GettingStronger.Org-Hormesis Hormesis GettingStronger.Org-Fitness Fitness LeanGains Protocols : Leangains MarksDailyApple-Home Workouts Without Equipment WorkAtHome

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2014 21:57

Anglaise Another idea for upper body: you might like kettlebells.

Chocupid · 08/01/2014 22:17

Ooh bigChoc just read your post... I like those press ups! I just managed 7!!
But wondered if I'm doing it right, do your arms have to be at right angles when lay on floor?

cuckoo yes the TV ad squats weren't pretty!

And I'm glad you like the supermarket carpark tip... 'Every little helps' Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2014 22:47

Hi Chocupid Sorry, I know it's very difficult to understand exercise described only verbally and I can't find a video yet.
I'll get a chum Friday to photo me in both the prone and in the fully raised positions, then I'll upload - if MN allows
--> MN hasn't been accepting my photo uploads all day, even a photo i had previously uploaded
Confused
Yes, your arms are at right angles on the floor in the prone position.
Imagine you are standing upright and someone says "stick em up", so you raise your hands to shoulder height, palms forward and open. Now rotate that view, so that you are lying on the floor, palms down, upper arms parallel to shoulders.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 08/01/2014 22:48

Chocupid Every Little Helps - I love it!!!! Brilliant! Grin

Chocupid · 08/01/2014 22:56

bigChoc thanks... Got it! 7 it is then.

Anglaise1 · 09/01/2014 06:40

BCF Thankyou very much for your reply. I'm 48 and have recently joined a running club so I'm quite pleased with how it is going but I have a lot of motivation.
You are right, my cardio is very good and 15 mins is probably a little too ambitions (skipping is very hard work!), so maybe some upper body strength would be better to work on. My brother does kettle bells so I'll ask him for some advice on that - in the meantime press up can be started immediately!
Thanks again Thanks

BetsyBell · 09/01/2014 08:24

Aching like billy-ho post Tuesday's tae-kwon-do and 10 press ups yesterday Grin

I'll get a nice cycle ride in this morning rather and let my muscles recover in time for tomorrow's assault.

Now I remember what happens to me: exercise = aches = doing more/keeping moving to stretch out the muscles = regular yoga sessions to really stretch.

So, some yoga this weekend. Or maybe this evening.

Feeling back on track and I love it.

I do fear for my calves and arms muscles - I get over excited and push it too far (have twanged my calf in the past - limping for weeks I was) so if bigchoc has any tips for not injuring myself due to over-enthusiastic kicking and punching I'd love to know!

The stretches in class were not nearly substantial or long enough for me.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/01/2014 09:13

I planked for 45 secs after doing my 30dshred this morning. How long/how many times a day would be good to aim for?
Also did my first set of 10 inclined pushups for the day.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2014 11:07

Errol
Try to build up to 3 x 45 secs plank, with a short break between each.
Leave at least one day before repeating this.

Good progress with the inclined press-ups. Again, try to do sets.
Also vary it by doing just a few pressups on a harder incline.

Betsy
Well done on the 10 press-ups . If they are the new XFit ones, you'll find in a few weeks that you can do more of the traditional ones too.

You're right, sounds like you need more warm-up / cooldown for your TaeKwondo.

These exercises should be mostly dynamic, i.e. with movement, rather than static.
It is worthwhile investing this extra time before and after training, particularly while your body is adjusting to a new sport.

I'll add some routines I've designed for your sort of activity. See what you think.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2014 11:44

Add / reduce the number of exercises or repetitions to suit your needs & time - it's just a suggestion, especially if you feel vulnerable to injury.

Warm-up for TaeKwando, TaeBo etc

This will prepare the muscles & central nervous system and increase blood circulation. It should helps avoid injury.
Do directly before the class, if possible. Allow 5-15 mins

10 x arm swings (walking briskly, hold your arms straight out to the side, and then swing them forward and cross them in front of your chest)
10 x shoulder rotations (walking briskly, hold your arms straight out to the side, then move them in a circular motion, making bigger circles as you go thru the 10).
30 secs x gentle jogging - typically 2 circuits around around the training room
15 secs jogging with high knees - 1 circuit
15 secs gentle jogging while punching forward - 1 circuit
15 secs gentle jogging while punching upward - 1 circuit
10 x jumping jacks
10 x wall push-ups
5 x bodyweight squats (start with shallow ones and then deepen as you go)
5 x forward leg swings each leg (hold onto a pole or wall etc if you wish)
5 x side leg swings each leg (swing your leg outwards, then swing it back to cross in front of the other leg, optionally holding onto a pole)
5 x hip rotations each leg (raise your knee, rotate out to the side, then back in front)
5 x forward lunges for each leg (shallow then deep)
15 secs gentle jogging - 1 circuit

Cooldown

Gradually slows the heart rate and helps prevent pooling of blood in the legs and feet. Also helps prevent injury.
Do directly after the sport, if possible.

15 secs gentle jogging while punching forward - 1 circuit
30 secs gentle jogging - 2 circuit
10 x arm swings (walking briskly, hold your arms straight out to the side, and then swing them forward and cross them in front of your chest)
10 x shoulder rotations (walking briskly, hold your arms straight out to the side, then move them in a circular motion, making bigger circles as you go thru the 8).
15 secs walk - 1 circuit
5 secs bend over and let you arms hangs loosely, swinging slowly side to side
3 x Bent Torso Twists each side Twist

  •      Stand with your feet wide apart and extend your arms out to the sides
    
  •     Bend over, touching your right foot with your left hand, keeping your back straight 
    
  •     Rotate your torso so your right hand touches your left foot, while the other arm points upwards, keeping both arms fully extended 
    

10 mins walk outside or on a treadmill, easy pace. Put a jacket on first.

ErrolTheDragon · 09/01/2014 12:59

Thanks BigChoc Thanks

BetsyBell · 09/01/2014 16:59

Brilliant, thank you BCF Flowers

BetsyBell · 09/01/2014 22:26

Just did another 10 xfit push-ups Smile, it's giving me some confidence that I'll be able to do proper push-ups soon.

Next I'll try 2 sets of 8. May not be tomorrow because Friday is taekwondo day Grin. Been practising my Korean counting today.

Ah man, just realised I should have counted my push-ups in Korean!

I ache everywhere. Will study my personal warm up/cool down plan tomorrow.

CuckooAtchooUhOh · 10/01/2014 00:15

Betsy am full of admiration for your enthusiasm on exercise front this week Thanks

I am hoping to get on board asap. Just been feeling crud all week and today has got so much worse. Thought we'd escaped illness for first winter ever but I feel very virus-y tonight. Head, neck, ears, back teeth and most of body really achey. Sooo tired too, though that could be lack of sleep this week. Just wish whatever it is would pop its head up properly so I could officially be ill, instead of feeling like a faker!

Oh, where was I? That's right exercise - yep good for you that. Will be on it shortly. [procrastinating face]

BetsyBell · 10/01/2014 08:44

It all goes to pot when I feel ill too cuckoo - most of last term I was exhausted and had that low level virally not-quite-coming-down with something feeling and barely did a thing. I'm playing catch up now and have to take full advantage while I'm perky!

I have also realised, via the 5:2 threads, that if there's some element of teamwork or group vibe to an activity I'm more likely to continue - hence joining a kick ass class.

Finally stopped aching from Tuesday's class so ready for another onslaught tonight! Armpits, shoulders and chest are feeling the pushups a bit though - must be doing some good :)

ErrolTheDragon · 10/01/2014 09:40

Did my shred followed by 3 sets of inclined pushups. 12 each in first two, 10 in the last. I can't do them until I 'break form' - that part is ok, it's my arms/shoulders that fatigue first. I've always had puny upper body strength - what pushed me, the wrong side of 50 into starting weight-bearing exercises was not being able to lift a 3.5 windsurf rig when DD was starting to be able to use a 5.9! And I finally got sick of standing on the shore hearing myself whine about not being strong enough! Grin

Planks not too bad yesterday, and as Bigchoc said not to do them every day I thought I'd try some side planks.... truly rubbish at those (

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2014 15:40

Zed There are a few routines on my exercise thread Here for those who have high BMI or are at beginner level.
Check out: interval walking, beginners spin, stretching etc.

Have a look: Masses of info there, something for all levels. If you want to post questions, I'll answer tonight; maybe I can suggest an exercise routine that would appeal.

You might want to try the Body Fat calculator, to get an idea of where you are, because BFat % is more important than BMI for health.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2014 15:41

Oops, sorry, meant to post on main thread !

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2014 18:58

Well done, Errol, Betsy You are working hard and you will soon be amazed at your progress (initial fitness gains are often high, as that bod swings into action again)
Smile
cuckoo you poor thing, you've had a tough few months. Once you are a 100% cuckoo bird again, we'll kick your arse into gear.

Don't do any really energetic cardio if you have have colds etc, because it might weaken your immune system (I know cardio helps a mild cold for me, but any virus that bites me tends to die quickly)
Lifting / resistance should be ok for you; try it and see

It's difficult to find other things that won't cause that dodgy pelvic floor to spring a leak.
The best thing is maybe cycling or, if you have access to a gym, a spin class. Or do interval walking - alternating very brisk / normal.

Right , what exercise are you doing and what challenge are you planning: squats, pressups ? Basically, work your arse / booty.

BetsyBell · 10/01/2014 20:30

LOVE my taekwondo class so much. We did more warm ups/cool downs today so hopefully won't be so stiff over the weekend!

One of the class had a fitness challenge thing to achieve - she'd chosen pressups as she couldn't do any, so I got to show everyone the xfit modified version as a better alternative to girlie ones. So I did 10 xfit pressups after all (well more actually, as I'd demonstrated a few too)

{proudface}

BetsyBell · 10/01/2014 20:31

I feel like I earned the fish and chips and beer I've just enjoyed post class, so much tastier when you're physically spent!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2014 21:35

Good for you Betsy ! Did you mention 5:2 when you showed off your QuiteBigGirl pressups ? You'll be acing sets of the full ones soon.

A class with other people is so much more fun than playing on your own, isn't it.

Yes, you definitely earned your delicious fish'n chips. With vinegar and mushy peas too ? Mmmm, one of my fave meals !

How's everybody else getting on with their challenges ?
BadGirl how many squats now ?

BetsyBell · 11/01/2014 07:19

I haven't extolled the virtues of 5:2 yet, I tend not to talk about it in RL - unless someone else brings up the topic, then there's no stopping me Grin

Just salt, lashings of vinegar and a bit ketchup. Not a mushy pea fan!

EarSlaps · 11/01/2014 07:47

Exercise already done for the day whilst DS watched things on the iPad. Might as well make use of getting up at 6 today!

I'm up to 16 on the push-ups. I felt I could have done a couple more but my form would have suffered a bit, so I'll just try for me next time. I love the way they work so much of your body. I really lock my abs so they feel really worked as well as my arms. I might try the squat challenge one day, but for the moment I'm going to stick with my Killer Buns & Thighs DVD.

Taekwondo sounds amazing Betsy, I might try something like that one day. I'm also planning to one day get a few sessions with a trainer to learn some proper lifting technique. I'm wondering about doing it at one of the local authority gyms, then I could just pay as I go. I certainly can't imagine being able to go more than once or twice a week so membership probably wouldn't be worth it. Either that or one of those budget gyms, DH is pleased with PureGym (but it wouldn't be convenient for me). Whenever BigChoc talks about the leg press machine I remember how much I love those so sort of miss the gym.

TheBitchesOfWeestick · 11/01/2014 08:08

Just jumping on before I read the whole thread, but what an amazing resource! Thanks to all for sharing their knowledge and experience.

Another one with 5yo, 2yo and a husband who works long hours, so gyms and classes are out for now. However, I have never been physically fit as such and now, at 38, I am determined to be a good role model for my kids and treat my body the way it should be treated. I walk lots and am very flexible but have crap knees, so I'm guessing my best options for the moment are to dust off the Shred (and replace the weights DH threw out when we moved Hmm), intersperse with some yoga and maybe buy a skipping rope?

All assistance with designing home exercise routines greatly appreciated :) BigChoc you'll be glad to know I'm intrigued by the sound of your push ups Grin

And BetsyBell I am Envy of your taekwondo sessions. I did it as a teenager and loved it. In an ideal world I'd take up a martial art and dance lessons too, but time and money don't allow right now.

Swipe left for the next trending thread