The 5:2 thread number 25- One year on from Dr Mosley's Horizon ep!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

ooh and betsy your salmon dish sounds delish, i'm stealing it for tonights dinner as i don;t have to rush to colelct children from nursery and then cook dinners for all of us, so i can take my time preparing for just me -thanks!

Will read all new posts in a minute but just wanted to post.

DS1 being a complete PITA. Missed out on swimming and going to Leeds Castle due to his behaviour. Lost his lap top, ipod and MP3 player. Still not got the message. Incredibly rude to me and unkind to DD and DS1.

So, today is a fast day I want to stick too but not sure how to work calories when my choices are gammon and chips (DH's choice) or tuna sweet corn and mayo (no bread so maybe on it's own) or bagged salad and salami.

missS I would either have the gammon with an egg and the salad but no chips, or the tuna and sweetcorn without the mayo with salad (if it is a sandwich filler type thing with the mayo already added check out the calorie count on the pack and work out how much you can have, it will be less of course but should still be do-able)

MissS have tuna and sweetcorn with salad

hopefulgum the thing I find most helpful re. FD recipe ideas is to rifle through my BBC good Food magazines (or you can use the website). They include the calorie content of all their meals which is hugely useful. It means I can look at the recipes I fancy (mainly in the poultry / fish / vegetarian sections) and then see if htey come in under 500 cals - you'd be surprised how many do
So, don't think "diet foods" just check out the calorie contents of things that look tasty instead!
hitc have a fantastic holiday - we're hoping for a few days camping next week!
and lazycouchpotato welcome! Sounds like you're doing really well so far so keep at it and your colleagues won't recognise you come September!

She'll - I am having the same problem

Starting 9 stone 4. I am 5ft 2 aged 46. This is the heaviest I have been in 20 years.
Keep losing and gaining same 4 pounds, can't get under 9 stone. Been doing 5:2 for about 5 weeks. 9 stone 3 today.
I am on medication which is the only thing I am doing differently.
I have 10 pounds to lose

Happy holidays to all those going away.

Well done to those who have stuck with it with or without a loss.

Hang in there for those who are feeling blue.

Welcome to those who are new.

The tuna and sweetcorn with mayo is home made so can't calorie count as I was making it for DS1 and didn't measure it. Out of all the choices I would really like the gammon and salad. DH will have chips alone and DS1 can have the tuna tomorrow for lunch again if I haven't killed him first.

I am going to look on MPF how many calories are in the gammon.

Loads of reading to get through here. I'm attempting my first FD where I don't eat til the evening. Would like to say its a 24 hour fast but considering I was munching chocolate at 9pm last night, that's not an option
Great to see lots of de-lurkers and hear their stories. Comforting for me that others struggle with their tdee on nfd's too. I think if I could apply a little of the discipline I have on fd's to nfd's I'd make great progress. Now just to do that, it'll be easy right

mocnk sounds like you have a good plan to get you through the next few turbulent weeks. Well done for planning ahead, it make all the difference. At the least you are doing damage limitation before it occurs which is what makes this woe so wonderfully flexible. Good luck with house move

Hi Funny we sound very similar then, maybe we can help each other along. How many calories are you having on non-fast days?
The first 2 weeks I didn't really count, then for the last 2 weeks I have tried to keep it around 1700-1900, I'm now going to try and cut it to 1610 as ERD suggested and see if that makes a difference. If I cut it much more than that, I might as well just do a normal diet!

Oh it's SO hard in the school hols. I was moaning last week that it's harder on a non working day when I'm around the kids and not busy with work and it's not getting any easier. AARGH!
Tips from anyone else please?
Plus much respect to anyone who normally has children around them on their fast days. Seriously, I don't know how you do it!

My tip would be to remember who far you have come.

FD for me though I had 50g of gammon before taking the kids out for a walk and play. DS1 is pushing and pushing and pushing and how I haven't slapped him I don't know. He is being a complete PITA and I just don't know what to do with him.

dotty i find duck tape helps

mocnk Crumbs, hectic times for you - extra exercise and perhaps some 16:8 type fasts are the way to go. Good flipping luck with the house hunt, I know it's been a massive stress for you xxx

Oh and if you have any fennel bung some in with the salmon, finely sliced, such a lovely combo.

I've managed up till now on 2 oatcakes and endless tea - have taken the kids out for a brief bit of fresh air and have managed to do a second coat of paint in 2 rooms! Kept having moments where I was thinking "hmm, have had 3 hours sleep, am fasting and paint fumes are making me dizzy - is this the best time to be attempting intricate cutting in on the paint edges?" Managed it though

Nice to have achieved something.

Dotty I'm attempting to cut my kids' snacking down which helps on FDs - it's not good for any of us really and mine are beyond the age where they actually need to eat every five minutes. I've also got them to start foraging for themselves during the day, while I go upstairs and decorate their bedrooms, well away from the kitchen! But I think yours are a bit younger than mine so that's not that helpful really...

Keeping out of the kitchen as much as possible is the key for me. Perhaps set your kids a buffet selection of things they can help themselves too and then avoid the area?!

Eat what you like on a Non Fast Day
now the truth
When Michael Mosely did the programme last year he was not overweight.
He already knew what size his meals should be.
He was trying to reduce his visceral fat levels.
His BMI was already well within the healthy range -
so he could "eat what he liked" and lose weight because "what he liked" was within his TDEE to stay the size he was.
And he lost weight because of the deficit of the two fasts.

Eat what you NEED on a Non Fast Day
is the better phrase
Look up tour TDEE : calculate it as if you are sedentary
Now look up tour TDEE at your super ideal target weight.
See how little you will need to eat to maintain at that level.

But once you get used to the fact that as you shrink, so will your tummy (if you let it) that lower intake will be plenty.
Honest.

Good luck and stay focussed and you will ALL succeed (unlike the 84% who fail on WW etc)

very well said tip this is so important for people to get their head around, lots of people who start this when they are still gaining weight will not necesarily instantly start losing weight, only those who have a stable weight from the beginning will instantly see weight loss. We all have to face up to our own reality - if we are overweight, why are we overweight, this isn't a quick fix, but it is an easy way of findinga way to eat all the variety of yummy things we want, without having to exclude anything or get faddy, and all it means is some schedule juggling and some thoughtfulness about how much we eat!

Hi Shell

I went onto the fast diet website and my stats as sedentary are

Bmi 23.6
Bmr 1178
Tdee 1414 calories

So five days I should be eating no more than 1414 calories and two days at 500.
I am going to use myfitnesspal to log my calories even on non fast days because I must be going over.

Good luck.

haha ERD, that did make me laugh!
And yes, getting them to sort themselves out might help, but at 8 and 10 they're not particularly good at this yet (other than at breakfast times) and I suspect fruit / veg wouldn't feature heavily

Anyway, just had tea so feeling more human. Just got to get through the evening without snacking and as am feeling super tired that's going to be a mission. Going to go and have a bath!

Hi everyone. This thread moves fast!

Still plugging away with my 16:8. Although today looks like an 18:6 day as I had to take DD to doctors this morning and we had such a long wait we didn't get back till gone 12:30 and I have just had my dinner half an hour ago.

Despite copious amounts of wine and naughty things and not fully sticking to the "window", I only gain 400g (under a pound) over the weekend.

It's a tough start to the week. DD was unwell and I was up with her all of last night. I feel braindead today. Am going to bed when DC go but I suspect DH will want me to get on with tons of DIY later. Grrrr.

You are all doing well by the look of the thread. And you are very brave with your 500 cal fasts. I am planning a mini fast of 900 cals tomorrow. Wish me luck. If I'm as tired as I am today then it will fail as I will require sat fat, carbs and caffeine in copious quantities.

Mine are 9 & 7 dotty - kids' foraged lunch was a sausage roll, crumpets with jam and an ice cream, oh and the contents of the fruit bowl. No not ideal, but no worse than usual tbh.

Hi everyone. This thread moves fast!

Still plugging away with my 16:8. Although today looks like an 18:6 day as I had to take DD to doctors this morning and we had such a long wait we didn't get back till gone 12:30 and I have just had my dinner half an hour ago.

Despite copious amounts of wine and naughty things and not fully sticking to the "window", I only gain 400g (under a pound) over the weekend.

It's a tough start to the week. DD was unwell and I was up with her all of last night. I feel braindead today. Am going to bed when DC go but I suspect DH will want me to get on with tons of DIY later. Grrrr.

You are all doing well by the look of the thread. And you are very brave with your 500 cal fasts. I am planning a mini fast of 900 cals tomorrow. Wish me luck. If I'm as tired as I am today then it will fail as I will require sat fat, carbs and caffeine in copious quantities.

Am I glad today is almost done and DS1 has been sent to bed!

Currently on 304 + whatever 3 chips come too.

MrsFlorrick - you'll do fine. IME once your head is ready then your body follows nicely.

Hmm, not sure how successful my first 24 hour fast was. I've eaten about 650 cals since I started at 6pm, that's not great is it? I think where I went wrong might have been having too light a tea - maybe I should have had something a bit heavier than shellfish & smoked salmon. Ended up on spready cheese and crackers after it x a lot
Ahh well, still a fraction of a normal day. The kitchenis now closed. Time for distraction techniques, bedtime story here I come If the kids noticed anything they'de link my over zealous cleaning/parenting days are when my dinner looks a bit teensy, who am I kidding though, kids notice anything except themselves? It'll never happen

Evening! First fast today after 2 weeks off. Not eaten so far, just contemplating if its worth it at this time. I have a fresh soup waiting, but it's alllllll the way downstairs.....

New scales have finally been purchased, as of this morning I was 10.7- turns out my last scales were out by 3-4lb, plus the 2 weeks of eating means I'm not a happy bunny with that. So...challenge time! I want to be 9.5-7 longterm. I am going to hit this hard and crack it, with no snacking, and proper fasts. I will do this, I want to look hot in a slinky dress over Christmas! I'm going to weigh in on a Friday every week I think, as shifts allow.

14lb to go and counting!