The 5:2 Thread Number 24 - Summer's still here so skip the snack and share the meal!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

so what did the research say postmanpat? i've been moaned at now and then over the years when living with people about how much hair i shed and am now curious as to whether the big shed times coincided with weight loss.

i haven't noticed any more hair loss than usual doing this though. weird side effect

my scales finally settled at 10.0.6 this morning determined not to let me see that 9 but pretty damn close. maybe tomorrow if i manage a fast today. think i'm going to give it a try. will aim for water and coffee till late afternoon then some low cal soup. wish me luck as it has been bloody ages!

i got very nervous about a date yesterday and guzzled white wine - have woken up feeling hungover and embarrassed so that may help as during the holidays it's the late afternoon fancy a drink that usually undoes me rather than hunger as such. i'm hoping hangover plus shame will make avoiding that easier.

You were on a date saf? ooooh, details please! (And sooooo close to the 9's again, you can do it!)

there is actually a thread in relationships dotty. i'm seriously bad at this stuff!

yep - so close. must.manage.a.fast.

saf not much, really...usual answers were: rapid weight loss, hormone imbalance/thyroid, vitamin deficiency. B vitamins particularly helpful and I've already got that covered. I try not to blame my current weight (8st 3 until this morning's mega bounce!) as I spent my teens and early twenties under 8st without this problem.

Congratulations Gilbertus. I have scales envy! I've been sitting at 11st for a while. I'm another one who doesn't see any convincing evidence for health benefits over and above those from weight loss generally. However it's a really easy way to restrict calories so I'm sticking with it.

i hate to mention it - and i have no idea how old you are postman - but can't menopause and the build up to it cause hair loss?

google says yes.

I'm 45 and no signs yet, but you might have a point!

Newbie here. Please can I join? On my first fast day today. Very very nervous but determined. Steadily putting on far too weight over the last 2 years and have crept up to 15stone (2.5 stone in 2 years). I knew my eating had got out of control. Got a new job 2 years ago which is a lot more stressful and I drink more wine and tend to eat more because I am so much more content with life.
Going to Florida next year and I really want to shed this extra weight at least before then.

How much, in general, are people losing on the 5:2 plan?
I can see this being my best plan because I can't see me giving up wine or my Saturday night takeaway or meal out which is how I've failed SW and WW in the past.

lizza and gilbertus I don't think there are benefits you will see or feel immediately unless you suffer from certain conditions.

One that's not even been explored is pernicious anaemia. I suffer from this but nhs rules say I can only have one jab every 12 weeks. Normally after 4 weeks I have to start supplementing with sublingual tablets. Then at around 10 weeks I am suffering terribly (without the sublinguals that would be around 7 weeks). Since I started this woe I've had massive improvement to my symptoms in that the first cycle I got to 11 weeks before crashing, and this cycle I've not needed to supplement until 7 weeks in. This isn't due to eating healthier though, I can't absorb B12 through the usual channels. I know through other forums I'm not the only sufferer who has discovered this.

wine0 I started at 14st13 and am now down to 11st8 after 15 weeks. I am, however, a freak I think. As you have more to lose you may lose a lot quicker than average (1lb a week) especially to start with. But I have treated this as a diet up till now, making sure I eat healthily as much as I can but allowing myself treats too (like wine ).

That's reassuring eaglerider. I know. Can do it if I put my mind to trot. I lost 3 stone about 5 years ago before getting pregnant with my DD but since getting this job and her being born its just crept up. My Mum is massively overweight and so is my sister and I DO NOT want to join that club, but fear I will head that way because it is in the family, if I don't do something now.

Well done on your weight loss too. That's amazing.

Peplum- at only 20 minutes it's not too hard to fit a shred in . DS1 goes to nursery 9-3 a couple if days a week (well, for the next two weeks anyway) so I shredded whilst ds2 was napping.

Welcome wine0, good luck with this, just see it as a way of life rather than a diet and remember you're in it for the long haul. Don't focus on how much you lose too much, or worry about blips, just look for a trend. If you've been gaining weight until now then even maintaining for a few weeks is a victory. Don't forget the non scale victories, like how your clothes fit and how you feel. When you look at the bigger picture it keeps you motivated in a way just numbers on the scale can't.

Well, after the efforts yesterday the scales said 10st3.2 this morning- that means over 5lb in a month or 9lb if you include the holiday weight (I started after an all inc holiday where I put on 4lb in 10 days). Not bad since I was just into healthy bmi when I started so didn't have loads to lose. I don't expect to keep going like this, a lot is just beginner's luck I think. I'd like to get into the nines but no rush.

Had a terrible night last night with a very restless chicken poxy boy- think I maybe got 3 hours sleep in small stretches. Oh we'll, nfd so will eat what I need to keep me going (chocolate and may even indulge in a dr pepper!).

Re the point above about 5:2 and anorexia, I haven't read the AIBU thread but I have to admit I had thought this diet could be dangerous for people who may be predisposed. All the talk of enjoying feeling empty and exercising on a completely empty stomach being better does sound like something people with an eating disorder might say. However, any diet could be dangerous to the wrong person if they become obsessive. I think a lot of people start 5:2 because they can't face restricting themselves all the time, so hopefully our natural gluttony will protect us .

Thanks lizzabadger, I agree it seems like a doable way to restrict calories. I haven't been 'dieting' at all other than the 2 FDs - and in fact I've been very social for the last few weeks so lots of wine and cocktails 11 stone is a real sticking point for me so once - if - I get to 10 10 (the weight where people start to notice that I've lost weight) I'll be more of a convert. 10 9 is the lowest I've ever got with a conventional diet.

I totally agree with the thought that this diet could pander to eating disorders. All diets do to a certain extent. The only one that doesn't would be a lowish fat, lots of fruit and veg, no crap, small portions, not too much booze. Weird really that we all find that so hard.

And - risks getting chucked off thread - this IS a diet!

i wouldn't sniff at that weight loss eagle! i've lost just 2st in a fair bit longer than that so it sounds great to me.

have just survived grocery shopping but god there's some gorgeous stuff in the fridge - think shopping whilst fasting might not be the best idea ever i absentmindedly took a biscuit from a 'test our product' person on a stand and got it all the way into my mouth before i remembered i was fasting. took it out of my mouth unbitten and gave it to ds.

think tonight will be soup and those gross crabstick things that i suddenly had a hankering for. tomorrow i will be tucking into the gorgeous cheeses, chorizo and other lovely stuff that somehow snuck into my trolley today.

oh god my fridge is calling to me! the big mistake i made was buying a fresh tiger baton loaf which i'm now worrying will be wasted if i don't eat any of it today aaaarghhh!!!

saf I'm certainly very happy about that loss. Its slowed on my now which is fair enough, but the worst shifted quickly. Though I do appear to be one of those freakish people who does far better than they're meant to, whilst also not really getting off their butt and exercising. Though this woe has sorted that out so I got through the 30 day squat challenge, sorted my sprained si ligaments out and can now use my home gym equipment without putting my back out for weeks!

I'm half way through my first fast day I am so far surviving with iced water and copious cups of tea.
This is soooooooooo hard!
I can't stop thinking about food! I've had to make DC breakfast, now lunch and go food shopping. I'm sure the wine in the fridge is winking at me too!
How many hours until bedtime? lol

wine0 it gets easier I promise. Though food shopping isn't going to help

oh, and remember:
'i can have that tomorrow'

Is 5:2 a diet?
Yes and no
Many many people are using 5:2 as a key to weight loss and combining it with calorie counting through MFP to learn what they "should be eating"

However the different aspect of 5:2 is the fasting - which has the specific medical purpose of resetting the insulin and grehlin systems and gut flora to provide long term protection from many chronic diseases.

If you stop you'll just put the weight on
Well yeah, if you stop eating within the right amount for your body of course you will
BUT, for those of us who hit our target weights many months ago, apart from the two (or three) fasts a week there is no calorie counting or restriction at all so its not a diet

Think you are right but needed to go. It's done now and tomorrow I'll be able to eat what I want within reason

Hoping it will just become a habit like everyone is saying on here.