The 5:2 Thread Number 24 - Summer's still here so skip the snack and share the meal!

[BetsyBell]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

NFD = Non fast day

NSV = Non scale victory

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

All our previous threads can be found by browsing through our very own fasting section of the site.

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the tips and links that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful.

A HUGE THANK YOU to Greeneggsandnicht for putting together all this info and resources into one concise OP text, much appreciated by so many 5:2ers!

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

crazy8
silly thing : do not run down hills unless you are v v fit : tres bad for your knees!

Yeah crazy, try running up the hills and walking down - that's what quite a few runners do in my local hilly park.

It is my second fast day today and I am a bit worried about how hard it will be. Though the first one was easy enough. I noticed yesterday (day after fast day) that my hunger at lunch time was no different to the hunger I felt the day before when I'd skipped breakfast. However, I have had a rotten sleepless night (bloody sciatica) and when I am tired I always eat to compensate ( a big problem I have always had). Also, I have to fast for a blood test this morning, so can't even have a cuppa and I think I am missing the caffeine already, can feel a headache coming on!

Still, I am determined to make this happen, I so want to be healthy and lose the last stubborn 10 kilos that seems determined to plague me all my days!

Thanks Talkinpeace and BsshBossh. Am learning so much today. Will start over tomorrow.

One more thing - bear in mind that a snack or nibble at any time of the day will not satisfy your hunger, it will strengthen it. So the answer is - don't have that first nibble!

You've said this before, BaW, and it really helps me. I'm not on the no snacking bandwagon generally, but when I'm considering whether to have something tiny on a FD to get me through, this particular piece of advice is the thing that stops me. So, thanks!

And thanks for the Shred link, Betsy, I'll have a look. Back to fencing after a few weeks off tonight, as well. The sun is finally making an appearance here - watery thin sun, but it's a nice change from the bucketing rain - so I'm hoping my motivation to move will go up as well. If nothing else, it means I can take the girls to the park again, which basically involves me chasing the younger one up and down climbing equipment so she doesn't kill herself.

Hopeful, I do Mondays and Wednesdays as well, as does Crystal who is also in SA, so we will be your motivation buddies. Good luck with the blood test.

tortoise is always the phrase that sticks with me!!! So thanks bandw!!!

What's wrong with snacking? I tend to have 4 or 5 smaller meals on an nfd. I track on mfp and stay below 1800. It's still about calories in versus out isn't it? I know you don't get the other benefits that way but I don't think I fancy having it all in 2 enormous meals.

It took me two days to catch up! phew! After 3 weeks stalling and moaning about it on here I suspected I wasn't eating enough on nfds and i was getting a bit obsessive too, so had a kind of week off - missed a couple of fast days over totm and then nfds this week have been two birthday parties an a wedding...and i'm losing again! hooray! keep the faith stallers! I've learnt I need to go back to mfp every so often on an nfd and just check what I'm eating.

2nd FD of the week and I'm starving already! Usually I can go until about 3pm without eating but I am really hungry this morning for some reason...
On my second cup of black coffee so will have to just brave it out

trying yay! great news

tommy I'm beginning to wonder if we're all syncing our cycles on this thread. TOTM due?

london I'm sure tip will be along shortly with a decent explanation but other than the entire feeding your hunger thing, there's also the need to give your digestive system a break

glad the sun is making a show tortoise - makes so much difference.

i've sat at 10.1.4 for the last couple of days. no sign of that magical 9 since it's one of appearance. then again i haven't fasted. monday i had a bit of an eat, eat, eat day but it was meals and healthy-ish stuff. yesterday i had a long break from food then two healthy smallish meals. i definitely look at bigger periods than days now and overall patterns throughout a week or so.

will aim for another long break today. will aim for nothing but black coffee and water till at least 2, ideally 4 and a small eating window. just not up for a proper fast at the minute so this kind of thing will have to do for now.

that's twice this morning i've typed of instead of OFF. i let it go the first time but this time have to correct myself.

ooh sorry one more thing i need to get off my chest.

i'm finding it quite irksome that even now i have a tummy and wondering how much i'd have to lose before that went. there is still fat on my upper arms (last thing to go usually) and on my stomach that is 'too much' imo or in my comfort zone so i think i'm looking at another stone? seems a lot and i may face that i'm going to be sticking around the ten stone mark for a while before finding the energy/determination to go for that last stone.

anyone in a similar position?

saf
I still have a tummy.
I can take a handful of baby skin that makes a fold big enough to fill between my finger and thumb - hence why my uber fit pic does not show midriff like Betsy and Postman - I can also pinch an inch under my arms.
We are all built in different ways
AND
If I got thin enough to get rid of those bits I'd have no boobs and look scraggy. So I wear lycra!

Londonmrss
The point of fasting is to give your system a total break for periods of time.
If you eat every couple of hours you are just doing normal calorie restriction, not fasting.
The medical side is that once the digestive tract empties completely and the stomach and liver and insulin system are not having to deal with any inputs at all they reset to repair modes.
If you do that regularly, they can be tricked into staying roughly in repair mode
and THAT is what gives the long term health benefits.

If you can go 16-24 hours : and therefore let the stomach completely empty, along with most of the bowels, the health benefits are worth it.

Silly thing, DHs IBS that was heading to hereditary diverticulitis has cleared up since we started fasting.

London, if it's working for you to lose weight then it's fine- as a diet it works on calorie restriction and that will work for lots of people. However, as a way of eating for life there are a few things against snacking-

-snacks are generally mindless eating, this woe should be about mindful eating

-it's very easy to over eat when you're snacking- it's hard to eat two chocolate bars after a meal but very easy between meals! This could harm maintenance if you stop counting the calories.

-lots of snacks are carbohydrate based- each time you eat carbs your body produces insulin which prompts your body to store fat, we want to burn it! If we release insulin all the time it could lead to insulin resistance and eventually diabetes.

-waiting between meals lets your body finish digesting what it has and gives it a bit of a break

That's my interpretation anyway. I have three meals on a nfd, plus very occasional snacks (but I always make sure I am mindful and eat them sitting down and socially, then adjust my meals accordingly). I do try to have at least 16 hours fast on a FD, with a very small lunch and bigger dinner.

If you do feel the need to snack avoid carby, sugary snacks (including fruit!) and go for things like a boiled egg, a small handful of nuts, some edamame beans.

Hope that makes sense!

saf I am now 8st 2 and I STILL have a disgusting pouchy flabby bit on my tummy and my youngest DC is almost 14 for chrissake!! I look fine dressed, but choose knickers and bikini bottoms with extreme care or the flabby bit hangs over the top

So yes, you could lose another stone but it might not make any difference! I have very lean limbs now and down to my waist but my bum and tummy are not up to the same standard!

agree on the IBS and fasting anecdote.

the only times in my life where i suffered badly with 'my' ibs were when i was trying to eat like other people did and do the regular meals thing. my body couldn't cope with it. i'm a natural faster in that it's the way i've always instinctively eaten - re: eating from late afternoon to mid evening but no desire to have breakfast or lunch. i look back at the times i suffered badly with ibs and it's when i went against my bodies preferred way of eating and it couldn't cope with the constant onslaught of food.

TIP - it's not just skin though and it's more than an inch on my arms tbf

x posted with you postman. i do get that i'll always have that kangaroo pouch - no escaping that but it's still a bit pot belly at the minute in a definite that aint just skin girl kind of way

Go through my first FD yesterday after a couple of weeks off, was ok as very busy at work so not much time to think about being hungry. Also started the shred on Monday again and am now feeling that every muscle in my body hurts! Have done JM's workouts in the past and I have had good NSV's from them, will be interested to see how I get on combining with 5:2.

Saf I thouroughly recommend shred...

It's easy to fit in just 20mins a day and I've done 3 days and already noticing small cahnges to arms and tummy...

I am on my last stone and had to accept that even with 4:3 that some exercise is needed to get things right down to where I want to be and tone up!!

I'm on holiday from tomorrow. Had previously decided I might pop in an impromptu fast or 16:8 day today. Just suddenly had a huge hunger pang but thought logically about how much food I ate at dinner last night - plenty enough to see me through to lunch today! So popped the kettle on. Now I can smell fresh coffee brewing suddenly I don't feel so hungry :)

I must remember this while on holiday too. It will be very easy just to launch into breakfast without really considering that I'll more than likely will have had a very large evening meal the night before (there's going to be a big crowd of us and that usually means impromptu dinner parties or meals out ).

And it's self catering so no tempting breakfast buffet to contend with.

Must remember to pack the obscene amount of coffee I've bought though!

Hello to today's de-lurkers and newbies! Welcome aboard

Saf My intractable fat areas (thighs and upper arms) are finally starting to properly reduce, and yes it's the being under 10stone mark that's getting rid of it (I'm still only just under - bouncing between 9.11 and 9.12!) I suspect it'll only take another 6lbs fat loss (and a helluva lot of toning) to get them how I want. Every pound makes a noticeable difference now so hopefully you'll find the same thing with your tummy area! (There's a lycra-clad flattering pic on my profile of my progress if you're interested.)

On the point on tummies... I wear granny knickers now. I'm not yet 34. I don't find anything else comfy as all others gravitate towards my c section scar. But given that just over 3 months ago I was edging out of size 20s I have gotten to the point that I don't care about the flabby tummy. I now no longer look pregnant, I just look like I'm wearing the scars of 2 pregnancies. Yes, I'd like to reduce the bulge a bit but given I can't be bothered to do any serious ab work, its never going to disappear!

My tummy tucks in fine under clothes etc but does have that empty bag look otherwise. I'm sure it would look alarming and gross to any young lovelies who have not yet sullied their bodies with the delights of pregnancies but it's a totally normal motherhood battle scar for the rest of us!

I'm not aiming for perfection, I'm aiming for a healthy, fit, long life.