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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

The 5:2 Diet Thread number 19! Cup of tea? or three?

986 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 08/05/2013 13:17

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 16:39

Good point saf

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 16:41

If I dither about my fasting day or a food choice it's much more tricky.

Hence tiday's panini and cake Grin and my fasting day being moved to Friday.

mehefin · 15/05/2013 16:51

Can I just say that as we all get much older we do not want to be overweight, we do not want type 2 diabetes, we do not want high blood pressure and having to deal with the complications and side effects from powerful medications

This WOE goes way beyond this year's bikini body.

Sorry, I am on a bit of a mission today but have had a couple of tough nights dealing with the fallout of the above and so much can be avoided.

BetsyBell · 15/05/2013 16:52

eagle Whoop! Clothes are the best test of body changes :)

mam29 · 15/05/2013 16:54

Thanks betsy and emily.

have 4weeks worth revenge on planner catch up on.

well done eaglerider sounds fab results such short space time.

well today fell off wagon had to do food shop and caved as had stressful day and another meeting tonight.

so probably end today on 1200-1500cals.
did 800mon
700 tuesday.

planning 2fast days tommorow and friday and weekendoff then back on on monday.

wil make sure weigh myself tommorow so can track my progress but as others said sometimes take a while for results to come through.

its mind over matter.

brought reduced grilled veg for meal tommorow.
we have full fruit bowl again:)
i love cereal but hate yogurts.

just had reduced choc dessrt and will have been tonight then hopefully in better frame mind start again tommorow im still learning.

I wassent trying in anyway be overcritical of people who do zero fasts people do whats right for them..

plecofjustice · 15/05/2013 16:59

Hi saf,

In no way was I saying that anyone has an eating disorder, or bashing them. I just wanted to express something I was feeling a little concerned about. Maybe the choice of the phrase "eating disorder" was a poor one, and instead I meant "disordered eating", which I think many people suffer from. The guilt around eating, using eating as an emotional tool, using punishing language when weight gain occurs, etc.

It's that sort of behaviour that I'm concerned about with some of the more extreme manifestations of the fast diet I've seen. And I'm not talking about a 0cal 1 day fast, but 4-5 day consecutive

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 17:08

Food is weird.
It's so complex.

BetsyBell · 15/05/2013 17:08

mam Why are you doing 4 fast days this week? If you want to do 4 fasts a week then you should be doing ADF - alternate day fasting - akarucker does this and can give you some tips. I think you're setting yourself up to fail by doing it the way you are. You need to let your body get used to fast days knowing that it will get an eat day the next day. Keeping your calories low every day might have the less desired effect of your body holding on to every calorie it can. We've found, via these threads, that this WOE is most effective when there are good contrasts between the eating and fast days.

What's your TDEE? If you want to do ADF aim to eat to your TDEE on eat days and working your way down to 500 on fast days.

I realise you want to get on with it and are in a big hurry but this is about finding a sustained way of eating for life not just a quick fix to shift a few pounds.

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 17:12

Ooh, where's akarucker? I'd love to ask a couple of things about ADF.

akarucker · 15/05/2013 17:30

Yep, mam I do ADF, primarily because I have what was politely referred to up thread, as 'disordered eating'. I manage very well on my fast days. I stick to 500 cals. But, it started out very, very hard on fast days. Now I can go with nothing until my one 500 cal meal at about this time. So, fasting does get easier, that I can promise.

NFD, however, are another story. I find these hard. Years of overeating has meant that I'm finding it very hard to shift my mentality from making it a stuff my face day! It has got better - much better, and it's been with the help of this thread. My insane chocolate addiction is now (somewhat) under control, and I am finding that naturally I am not able to eat as much as I was able to a few months ago. However, this has been a slow process for me. I know that I cannot continue ADF indefinitely, and in fact, a few times recently, life has dictated that I did 4:3 and I saw no difference in weight loss or gain those weeks.

ADF just suits me right now. I know that it took me a very long time to build up this unhealthy attitude to eating, so I know it's going to take a long time to undo it. What I am realizing, however, is that ADF is helping me be more aware of it, and learn as I go. I've only lost 15lbs in 14 weeks, which I know should be more, but this is working for me. I don't feel deprived - ever! My mindset is completely different on FD and NFD and knowing I can have it tomorrow is a great feeling for me.

This woe is so flexible that there should be a way to make it work for you. However, daily calorie deprivation shouldn't really be it. If you're finding fast days or non fast days too difficult, then I recommend trying 5:2, 4:3 or ADF to see which one feels right for you. I know there are some people on this thread that say they would never try ADF, and that's fine. I, on the other hand know that in the foreseeable future I will not be soon 5:2. I've done the occasional 4:3 and I know that soon I'll be doing that regularly, but I'm a long way off 5:2. It is a goal though, but I have to make sure I have more control on NFD first.

Oh blimey, waffle much??? Sorry, I'll stop...

INeedThatForkOff · 15/05/2013 17:39

Just gearing up to start my second fast (not looking forward to it much Wink)

Got a lot of boring assessment work to keep my busy at home tonight and tomorrow. Not sure whether that'll help or not.

Looking forward to homemade lentil soup, cheese and stewed rhubarb tomorrow evening, not together of course!

EagleRiderDirk · 15/05/2013 17:48

aka what a fantastic post. Just goes to show how different everyone's mindset is and how that can affect us in how we eat or how we tackle it.

swallowedAfly · 15/05/2013 17:50

not waffle at all.

the thing is stuffing yourself silly and into being massively overweight and at risk of all manner of illnesses that can shorten your life and destroy the quality of it is pretty disordered too isn't it? as a nation and beyond our diets are pretty damned disordered.

if it was a choice of (which is not obviously) doing more frequent or longer fasts than most people would consider or being clinically obese which is more dangerous? everything has a risk so life is about balancing those risks as one makes choices. i would say the risk of getting an eating disorder out of the blue because you tried to lose excess weight was exponentially smaller than the risks of type ii diabetes, heart disease, etc from obesity.

i suppose realistically the vast majority of us in the west have 'disordered' eating in that we weren't meant to have such calorific food in constant supply sitting a few feet away in the kitchen.

sorry if i sounded pissy btw.

Chocupid · 15/05/2013 17:53

Thanks SAF, TIP for words of wisdom. I will just carry on with the 500cal fasts for now, as I like the feeling of control it gives.
Fasted today, may do another tomorrow as I'm out for meal on Sat and may drink more than I eat. Grin

Barbie1 · 15/05/2013 18:06

I have a disordered way of eating Blush

As I have said up thread I'm really a very fussy eater, something which hugely embarrasses me. I can not all all day and then eat a bag of haribo or a big bar of chocolate and console myself with the fact I haven't eaten much up until that point iyswim?

However I'm starting to look at calorie content of food and realize especially in fast days that I need 'good' food in order to fill me up and not just 500 cal of dairy milk Grin

I'm going to look at my non fast days and start eating better foods, will avoid the sweet aisle out shopping so I'm not tempted too eat my 1200 cals in crap!

I'm doing 4:3 this week and will stick with this until I can get the bloody scales to budge. In the mean time I keep reminding myself of the amazing health benefits. My mum suffered with breast cancer and is now
diabetic, so this is giving me the extra drive.

Talkinpeace · 15/05/2013 18:22

barbie
the impetus of avoiding diabetes is a good one.
You do not need sugar at all in your diet
you do not need snacks at all in your diet

you DO need some fat, protein, carbs and vitamins and minerals
an easy shopping rule of thumb is
if it has more than ten ingredients listed, buy something else

Barbie1 · 15/05/2013 18:31

talkinpeace you are of course right.

I have eaten this way as long as I remember. I can easily make up 101 excuses not to eat rather than embarress myself and say i don't like a thing on the menu.

I really have to stop with the 'I'm fussy' excuse.

Fruit will replace junk.

I will eat regularly on nfd so I don't feel the need to binge later in the day.

I will remember the health benefits

I will not get depressed and then self sabotage if the scales don't move.

I will remember I have lost 10.5kg since late October

I will continue with the running, insanity and weight training I am doing.

I will remember muscle weighs more than fat

I will remember I have had two gorgeous dc's and two emcs within the last three years.

And finally....

I will get there!

Dotty342kids · 15/05/2013 18:34

That's a very good point about the amount of ingredients in a thing TIP.

Barbie I wouldn't say I was quite like you but there are certainly similarities. Sometimes the rigidity of 5:2 gives us the enforced control in our diets that we lack on our own. And it gives us the chance to relearn and challenge old bad habits.
My habits are still very much there, under the surface, waiting to be unleashed but I know they're not as bad as they were. I can't, for example, remember the last time I had a cake from the bakery on the same day as some chocolates or other "naughty" type of food. I still eat those, but now at least they're not all on the same day!
It takes time to retrain but whilst we're doing it, we're getting healthier every day Smile

And I know that the meals and my daily eating habits are improving so it's just the snacking and unnecessary stuff that I need to bring to sustainable, reasonable levels. (Note, I have no intention of stopping eating them full stop Grin )

Barbie1 · 15/05/2013 18:43

dotty

it's a slow process isn't it?
I can't easily do no cals for 24 hours but will crave and count down to the following day when I have 1200 cals again and could eat an entire bag of haribo tropical at 360 cals Blush

However I'm feeling positive.

I have just cooked chicken Breast so will have a proper lunch tomorrow knowing that it has to be eaten. I have forward planned and have filled the fridge with grapes, oranges and apples. All of which I like.

So no excuses tomorrow to eat the Jaffa cakes or mars ice cream I so desperately want!

Like I said before I'm all or nothing.

I will have treats at the weekend. The rest of the time I will try to curb my sugar cravings.

Barbie1 · 15/05/2013 18:45

CAN easily do no cals..

Fasting makes my a bit scatty! Sorry for typos.

mttum · 15/05/2013 19:01

Been checking why my sugar intake is so high, on MFP. It seems I should cut down on all this fruit! Sigh, sometimes it does seem difficult to get it all right...

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 19:09

eagle very impressive NSV with the jeans. I had been pleased that I could fit into my skinny jeans, but they are high waisted and stretchy. Then yesterday I tentatively tried on my favourite bootlegs (because I am old and I like them) and they zipped up. Ok, there's a bit of muffin top to lose but 2 weeks ago I couldn't get the edges to meet over my fat tummy. Blush I love this WOE.

I abandoned today's fast and had a panini and slice of cake at unch Blush but I skipped breakfast and replaced dinner with lentil broth rather than the risotto Envy that ds and dh had. No pudding either.

So, when to fast, tomorrow or Friday?? Not sure.
akarucker (stupid question alert) with your ADF do you have NFDs on Saturday and Sunday or do you literally fast every other day? So mon, wed, fri, sun, tues, thurs etc?

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 19:19

Oh, I see, sorry I didn't read your post properly the first time. It really is ADF.
Impressive.

Talkinpeace · 15/05/2013 19:35

mttum
is it fresh fruit?
the intrinsic sugars within fresh fruit and pure fruit juice as an utterly worthwhile price to pay for the vitamins, minerals and nutrients in the fruit.

its "extrinsic" sugar that is the bad stuff : the one that appears on an ingredients list.

BUT
to get your 5 a day an easy way : peeled carrot cut into chunks - a whole carrot takes ages to eat and is really good for you
if its a non fasting day, dip the carrot into hummus ... nom nom

Emilythornesbff · 15/05/2013 19:50

Shit!
I've just remembered I have an unfinished box of champagne truffles in my bedside drawer.
Do. Not. Eat. Them.
Nothing tastes as good as being slim feels.
Etc.

I can eat them on my next NFD