The 5:2 Diet Thread number 19! Cup of tea? or three?

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has a website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- you'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

If you've been at this a while and are moving on to maintaining your goal weight, there is a thread here to discuss that.

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

There's a link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley himself, very informative if you're just starting. (I highly recommend this for an overview)

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

2nd fast day of the week for me today. Will not eat until about 7pm, when I will cook a chicken jalfrezi. The recipe I use has about 300kcal per portion. I will have it on its own, without rice or nan bread. I'll use the remaining calories to have some milk in tea, but will wait until after 12.30, so that I've had 16 hours without 'food'- before that I'll just have water or herbal tea.

I went a bit over my maintenance calories on MFP yesterday, but I hadn't allowed any for breastfeeding. I'm going to try to be a bit stricter with myself tomorrow, and change the mindset of my NFD being a bit of a free-for-all. It should help that I'll be out of the house all day, and as the spa food menu is so expensive, I won't want to order much .

Well done, Frozen.

I had a banana at 4pm yesterday, then 1/3 portion of dinner as I find sleep elusive on fast days and I was feeling sorry for myself because one of my hens died.

Kept awake by the wind, anyway.

New low this morning. Hurray!

Thanks emily was thinking more for quick results then drop down to 4,3 then normal 5, 2. or would body go into starvation mode having low cals for 5days as confused as some science says body goes starvation mode wher as others say they lost weigh seem to contradict each other.

if i did 800cals for 5days then 2normal days would that work?

3rd fast day...got a cold, hayfever and only got 5 hours sleep thanks to the noise from the big fiesta (I'm abroad) going on atm. And I'm HUNGRY!

I worked with a new person last night, she has been fasting for months for purely health reasons ( doesn't need to lose an ounce of weight ). It was like spending the night with someone off the maintainers thread - very inspiring and a good reminder of how much more there is to this than weight loss

Morning all, good to see newbies getting results already
Still no loss for me, which I admit is now getting boring. I'm finding it easy, enjoy that I am not on a restrictive diet but really want to see a loss on the scales again I suppose it's a dreaded plateau, I JUST WANT TO SEE A SHIFT!!
Sorry for rant

mam I don't know whether that's "in the spirit of" IF neccessarily.
But without doubt, if we "under-eat" we will lose weight.
Personally I think the problem with reducing calories on "too many" days is just that it's impossible to stick to.
What's the emergency?
When I feel frustrated about slow progress I remind myself of the longer term goal. If I'm not a size 8 by this holiday It's really not the end of the world.
If I go gradually I am more likely to be my ideal size for the next 3 holidays/birthdays / parties where dh's ex will be...etc.
If I make it too hard I'm more likely to fail long term.
That doesn't apply to everyone though. Clearly some slebs "starve" themselves most of the time to maintain BMIs of < 18 -19.

Sorry, bit of a ramble and probably not very helpful.
And also an excuse for dropping today's fast

Not entirely convinced by "starvation mode" I mean, if you look T ppl who don't have enough to eat.... They're skinny.

We know that in cases of severe calorie restriction, the body re-prioritises calorie use from peripheral systems to core systems and reduces the amount of calories used - this is well documented in cases of eating disorder and malnutrition.

I think (and I know this is really controversial) that, for some people, following the 5:2 carries with it a risk of developing an eating disorder. With the extroadinary losses that many people see - in some cases the first sustained weightloss they've ever seen while following a "diet", the temptation is to restrict more and more to get results faster. Ultimately, a lot of us are impatient and think if we lose 2 pounds fasting 2 days a week, we'll have to lose 4 pounds fasting 4 days a week. It's at that point where this WOL becomes potentially dangerous, and also Dr. Mosely's original intentions are lost.

I'm immensely concerned when I read on other forums about people attempting the 4 days 0 cal fast - yes, most of our bodies can take it because we're designed to be able to function this way in an emergency, but it's not, in my opinion, a stress we should be putting bodies through on a regular basis.

Just wondering what other opinions are?

Hi all,

I am a newbie here. Spent last 2 weeks on and off reading back through these epic 5:2 threads! Somewhere along the way I decided to give it a try and now I'd like to join the chat - such a great support network...i feel like I know lots of you already!

So, I've got a 6 month old son and ebf'd him from birth, but started weaning couple of weeks ago - hence think good time to shift last of the baby tummy. I am living abroad but home in 3 weeks for the summer. No idea what I weigh til i get back to uk as no scales here, but guess it is somewhere between 10st7 and 11st. Either way, there's jiggly bits on my tummy and thighs which need to get gone! All tips from other bfing mums on here v welcome.

First couple of fasts were ok. Tried a zero cal one yesterday...tough at times but in a weird way easier than worrying about your tally all day. I am finding I'm much hungrier today tho than I was day after a 500 cal fast day. Any thoughts?

mam, I don't understand why you'd punish yourself like that. Sounds unsustainable.

mehefin how lovely to meet that woman. Is she not losing any weight at all, do you know? How many days fasting does she do?

Whilst it's true that the body will adjust metabolism in times of severe restriction, it it also true that if you eat less than you need long term, you will be thin. Starvation mode or no starvation mode.
The trouble is, because there is so much food available to us we can't maintain it and we return to over eating with our hormones all out of kilter.

pleco I think you make a good point about eating disorders. The language used in relation to significant dietary control and it's results has reflections in ED speak.
But I think that might be the case with any "diet" especially a "new" one IYSWIM.

ED usually has complex physological grounding too.

I have a sudden craving for lemon curd.
Where did that come from?
I never have lemon curd.

I LOOOVVEEEE lemon curd!!!

(Haven't had it for ages though, cos of the butter. I've never been able to make a decent substitute without the buttery goodness. I wonder if it works with goat butter?..might be a Sunday afternoon project)

Anyone with a tendency to eating disorders is on the list of those who SHOULDN'T try fasting.

Mam, why on earth would you want to make things so difficult for your body? Try 5:2 first of all, give a good test period at the recommended 500 on 2 days. If after 6 weeks you haven't lost anything, then's the time to tweak here and there, try a zero fast, try a 4:3 approach. But read Mimi Specner's web-chat again - she was very clear that this way of life should not be a struggle or make you miserable.

IMO, restricting on 2 days means you need to get good nutrition in on teh other 5.

poj I think if you're in that state of mind where an ED could grasp you then this woe is not going to be good at all. I'd guess its likely to tip you over the edge from enjoying results and going 'hey, this starving malarkey is quite easy'. Having said that I'm not sure its much higher than a more established diet.

I'd personally never consider going higher than AD, I can't see how that helps you at all and I'd rather be healthy and fatter than skinny and ill. Though at the moment I'm not even thinking of going beyond 5:2 anyway.

I'm not worried for myself, particularly - I've been sustaining weightloss (though pretty small really) on 5:2 since last September without too many problems, a marked contrast to my progress on most diets (I gained on Weightwatchers!).

It was more a bit of post-consecutive fast pondering, before breakfast when I was feeling a bit peculiar and thinking deep thoughts....

Mam I totally second what MelanieCheeks says. Keep it simple, keep it basic - 2 days at 500 cals, 5 days normal (but try and be healthy for most of it) eating. Do this for at least a month before you decide whether it's working or not. Oh yes, and soups are excellent.

Phew found you again!

Busy busy packing for the big move next month and the contant list of jobs to do is helping me fast. Mind is on other things apart from food!

After the initial weight loss I have gone back up a kg. I've been 9 stone since Christmas. Is like my body refuses to be any lower in weight

I have upped my excercise just in case I do get into the London marathon so it could be that?

I so desperately want to be 54kg, so I'm going to do 4:3 for the next few weeks while still in France. Dd goes to nursery three alternate days so ill fast then.

Off to catch up with the thread.

Hi. I've had a quick look through the thread, but wanted to say hi because I'm going to start the 5:2 way of eating with a fast day tomorrow (out for lunch today!)

I've got a 5mo and I'd lost all of my baby weight and had a flat (if flabby) tummy after 6 weeks, but then I stopped bf and the weight has piled on. I'm bigger than I've ever been and none of my clothes fit

If I'm at home with LO most of the day I find I graze, and if I'm out and about I'll inevitably indulge at a coffee shop while I feed her.

I used to exercise a lot, but I can't seem to find the time. I go to one yoga class a week,but that's more about meditative practice than fat burning. I walk for miles with the pram, but this weather is making it too easy to make the call to take the car.

I felt like if I 'confessed' to all these bad habits on here, it might help me to stay on track!

I've downloaded MFP to shock myself (I'm sure!) with all the calories my grazing adds up to, so I hope that'll help to.

TIA for the support. And well done to all of you who are doing so well

Pieceof I agree with you. I'm a bit freaked out by people talking about full fasts that last longer than 24 hours. This seems very contrary to the (admittedly limited) way in which I understand this diet/woe.
I moaned at the beginning because I was losing so much slower (plus weight was bouncing) than I do on a usual diet. However, the difference is that fifth week and I'm still on the diet. This is rare. I'm now down to what I was (at a low pre-holiday point) two years ago. Another three pounds and I'll be at my lowest point since having children. And in five pounds time I'll be at lowest since since before having children... And this is actually doable.
Saints often starved themselves and had what we would now consider to be eating disorders. There is a high that you can get from extreme self-denial. I think it would be a shame if anyone found themselves in that position using what is in fact a very moderate eating plan.

Just been on MFP and it's amazing!! It's even got stuff from foreign supermarkets and everything! I'm abroad, so thought it would be UK based or set around food from UK supermarkets, but it's brilliant it's even calculated my homemade Spanish chickpea stew for me. And, and, and...a whole plate of it is only 200 cals so I can have that and have something else later!
So far today I've had a herbal tea and I'm now having a cup of tea with one sugar at 40 cals.
Calculated my TDEE and it's 1786, which seems quite a lot, but I'm not going to calorie count too much on NFD I don't think...will just eat sensibly.

I agree that people susceptible to EDs might not find this WOL good, but I think if you have healthy attitudes to food anyway it's not a problem. I think I actually eat better doing this WOE.