5:2 Diet Thread! 12! Cheaper by the dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

There are no rules with weigh in times - just know how you cope with fluctuations. I was 5lbs up yesterday - it helped me fast knowing that I needed to....had the scales been kinder I'd have felt less motivated. I'm a daily weigher - I record those daily weights so I know how the fluctuations move.....mind you even for fluctuations 5lb is a lot but I had cramps and felt bloated - I knew it was water. Looking at my stats though if I was to choose a frequency to avoid an emotional response it would not be weekly - it's not long enough to escape the variations, fortnightly or monthly would be better.

betsey I heard that they use lots of chemicals to decaffeinate coffee beans, but I also read that some brands do it simply with water. I must look into it again.

Unfortunately I can't stand herbal tea. I will try Barley cup though. I generally like sticking to natural stuff so hopefully I'll like it. Failing that it will have to be hot water with lemon and 1 or 2 cups of coffee.

I'll have another read through the opening thread since I must have missed the bit about fasting. I remember reading that fasting for 16 hours is good, but watching horizon confused me since he would eat breakfast and dinner.

I'm the same snowkey I weigh most days and the increases are motivating rather than demoralising. I've found a lot less daily fluctuation since I started IF which is interesting - I guess I'm retaining less water at the moment. My weight changes always seemed a lot more random previously.

betsy tesco's organic instant coffee is delicious - not cheap but cheaper than the supposed luxury instant coffee brands and much, much nicer. you can actually taste coffee! i think it's the absence of chemicals - apparently coffee is one of the most sprayed crops on earth.

thanks for thoughts folks. i can can can fast today and i can lose this weight. we all can.

Politico I also did my first fast yesterday and I also had a horrible night.

I managed 24 hours then ate a M&S count on us vege moussaka and a very large plate of salad. Was fine during the day, just drank tap water & lemon juice, black coffee, herbal tea and sparkling water.

During the night had bad stomach cramps and had to get up for the loo twice!
Still don't feel quite right this morning, not hungry but managed a bowl of porridge.

Hope I don't suffer from this after every Fast day.
Anyone got any ideas? Perhaps I overdid the salad or lemon juice?

swallowed Sounds good - I only buy coffee beans these days: fair trade and now you've said about crop spraying it'll be organic only from now on too... [middleclasscoffeesnobemoticon]

Morning all.
Non fast for me although apart from hot water & lemon ive not eaten yet as just cant do breakfast!. Will have lunch then pancakes later :). Had slightly under 500 cal yday and exercised, although tried a ww ocean pie-yuk!!.

Really hope for a weight loss this week, only weigh myself on a fri morn after my 2nd fast of the week.

off to read opening post thoroughly.

Oh meant to say i sleep really well on a fast day :) fall into bed at 10 then thats me til 7...

Yes, me too - sleep loads better on a fast day than a foodie day, when I tend to feel a bit bilious (but this is because I have been over-doing it - learning to redress this!)

I slept like a log last night too, the best sleep I've had in ages.

Hello, can I join in? Not new to MN (although new name - didn't like my old one!) but new to 5:2!

Hadn't heard about it until 3 weeks ago when my Mum said about it when DrMM was on TV. Got the book and started 2 weeks ago today. Thought I would find it hard on the fast days, but I haven't at all.

I went straight for no food all day and a 500 kcal dinner, as I know that the more I have for breakfast, the hungrier I feel etc. The first day I was really craving something savoury by 4pm and had a mug of Bovril, which was brilliant. So that is a sort of "treat" to have, but in the 2nd week I didn't really feel I needed even that.

Then at dinner have been having fish or chicken and loads of veg. It's been fine.

So far the results have been brilliant. In 2 weeks exactly I have lost 10lbs!! I know that rate can't last, but it's a great start and really encouraging me to keep it up.

I'm not really counting calories on non-fast days, but do find myself now looking at foods I'm about to eat and realising that it would be nearly all the fast day calories in one go and being really put off, thinking aboout the massive amount of fish and veg I could have instead. Have had chocolate, cake, bread, pizza, though, so it's not stopped me that much!

I usually sleep better on a fast day but then don't sleep well with too much food in my belly anyway. I don't need nearly as much sleep though - so wake up early but without that sluggish feeling that an early start usually entails.

There are a lot of stomach bugs around too...

Or it could just be your body acclimatising to a different way of eating?

Bestsy...by a bit mad I mean I ate more than usual. Yep I have mfp and I never went over 2000. My tdee is 1940 so I am a bit confused. I am not overweight, I am still (just) writhin my healthy weight, but am edging to the higher end of it. I like to be the lower-middling end.

I just don't seem to be losing any with fasting anymore despite a lot of walking and yoga twice a week. I have (for feb) eating healthily on feed days.

Skullnbones You sound as if you're in the same boat as me. I've been doing this since August and am exactly the same weight as I was then. Saying that, I'd lost a couple of stone doing Dukan and was 'being careful' every single day. So I was happy to maintain, considering over that time I've had gastro weekends in France and whatnot.

My weight has crept up, gone down again, maintained, gone up... I keep telling myself I'm doing this for the health benefits and I do feel fab but I bloomin wish this last half stone would sod off!

All we can do is hang in there - we're reaping so many other benefits and, to be fair, I'm really enjoying my grub and having a much better relationship with eating than I ever have done. So if that means maintaining - or going up to 4:3 - then so be it.

Skullnbones I don't lose weight on 5:2 unless I do some high impact exercise - 20mins running or a longer cycle a couple of times a week.

I've never been a calorie counter before - I lost the bulk of my excess weight through keeping a food/exercise diary and adjusting my eating/exercise habits accordingly. However, since doing 5:2 I've been working out calories on MFP (not everyday but often enough to compare with my food diary entries) and if I actually ate to my so-called TDEE everyday I would definitely put on weight .

Obviously the health benefits are paramount but a stable weight is also a nice thing! So maybe introduce a bit more cardio exercise and have a couple of days where you eat substantially less, so if doing 5:2 you have 2 days of fast, 2 moderation then 3 days to be less careful with.

Im in the same boat as Skullnbones and Spiralskies - only 2 weeks in but havent lost anything - im 28 and 5 ft 3 weighing 9 stone 9 currently - I log everything on Fitness pall apart from Friday and Saturday nights. I currently do fast days Monday and Wednesday and then Tuesday and thursday have about 1200 kcal - I excercise about 3 times a week half hour plus on the crosstrainer and zumba.....i know this diet isnt all about losing the weight but i do want to lose 9lb to get to my goal. I lost 2 stone last year on the cambridge diet - very expensive, however it did work and i managed to keep it off because i was really strict; however my other friends who were on Cambridge at the same time have me have all put thier weight back on and some more.....I love this 5:2 diet as its cheap and the benefits seem amazing! I just want to see the scales move slighlty - weigh day monday! (after a binge weekend - maybe this is where im going wrong!)

OH well Good luck to everyone today who is fasting and to those who are not - HAPPY PANCAKE DAY x

anyone who's at a plateau on 5:2 - and is not finding fasting difficult - I would strongly suggest you just fit in some more fast days as a first measure to kick start it again. We are trying to eat like thin(healthy thin!) people, and thin people simply don't eat the amount of food we've been eating . I went out for a sushi with an always-slim friend, it was not a fast day and I made healthy choices (apart from the ) but became very aware that she simply was not eating as much as I was.

I've lost 27lb so far, am not trying to lose more ATM but am trying to get a good sense of what I need to eat at this weight (9st 5lb) to stay stable. My friend has never had the wild fluctuations in weight I've had - talking to her about it is interesting as she realises that if she's had a heavy eating day (out for a meal etc) she will compensate the next day - but has not really thought about it much .

I've also got a pedometer - and am by how little I move some days - and evidently (according to Dr M's Horizon prog on exercise) it's the constant small movement that burns more calories than the "workout" approach. I now set my alarm to go off every half hour to make me leave my desk and walk around!

keep with it - it does work, you just have to find the pattern that is right for you.

Great idea catrus, I can spend many hours sitting some days even though I walk in the evening, and it does make you feel slouchy.

I'm going to try the 30 min alarm and just walk up and down a couple of flights of stairs on desk days - thanks.

Hey, I came across this article this morning - really interesting: busts a load of 'nutrition' myths. Doesn't specifically address fasting but it makes the point that 'eating little and often throughout the day' makes no sense, and that periods without food are very good for you.

silverbeetle regarding the bad stomach during your first fast. I too ate nothing until my evening meal on my first fast and had the same problem of having to sit on the loo in the small hours. And I was concerned that maybe my system did not like this woe, but I have been doing this very successfully now for six months and it's never happened again. Sometimes after my evening meal on my fast days my stomach makes weird noises and I think 'uh oh' but it just passes. I wonder if you just need a little time for your stomach to get used to everything. Stick with it, it's so well worth it.

Good idea Catrus, I work at my computer at home all day and am very guilty of not getting up much. I also had years with very bad knees (had to have knee replacements 2 yrs ago) so am used to doing little because I had no choice. I need to move around more even if I can't do high-impact exercise.

skullandbones,spiralskies,daisy have any of you tried doing 4:3? I started with 5:2 and slowly but steadily lost weight. Then I hit a plateau for 3 weeks and decided to do 4:3 which was amazingly easy and I started to lose again, then I went back to 5:2 and then when I stopped again went back to 4:3. I've now lost 25lbs and am a size 10 (only just) but would like to lose another 5lbs and I have to do 4:3 and exercise 5 days a week as my body is reluctant to give up this last bit. Last week I lost 2lbs (the biggest loss I've had in one week!) despite going out to lunch twice and eating cake twice plus cheese, doritos etc.
I think that those of us who do not lose easily have to work just a little bit extra harder and we do get the rewards.
Give it a go, try the extra day plus extra exercise and then come back and tell us your good news

Thanks virginposter that's very reassuring.

I really want to stick with this, bizarrely I actually enjoyed doing a fast.

I may try the 4:3. I have a pedometer and easily walk 11000+ steps every day. I have only about 5 pounds to loose to get back to 9.7 which is where I want my weight to be.

I used to be 14 stone and have maintened my 9.7 weight for two years with little effort. Apart from a post Christmas binge month . 4:3 could just kick start it all for me!