5:2 Diet Thread! 12! Cheaper by the dozen!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like, or approximately your TDEE (see explanation below). Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average for a woman, 600 for a man, on those days.

You'll find on these threads we use a number of acronyms. If you're new to the threads, or Mumsnet in general, they might not make much sense.

WOE/WOL = Way Of Eating/Way Of Life. We use this term instead of "diet" as many of us see this as something to do in the long term.

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a website many use for keeping track of the number of calories they're eating.

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

ADF = Alternate-day Fasting, as it says on the tin, fasting every other day rather than 5:2.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Something to consider if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Thanks Virginposter - i think im gonna continue to do 5:2 this week as lots on and dont think i can fit another day fasting in and then i may try 4:3 next week - Brilliant!

Just tried Hummus for the first time on my non fast day - sweet chilli and its BEAUTIFUL with carrots - loved every mouthful yummy! x

VirginPoster & Catsrus - I hear what you're saying. I'm gonna carry on as I am - to be fair, if I was that fussed about the final 7lb I'd try a bit harder - cut down on vino and cals on food days and whatnot. I s'pose I'm happy with the health benefits. Extra fast days might well come with salad season. We'll see.

Perhaps the point I was making is that those with a normal BMI, healthy lifestyle and sensible amount of exercise aren't going to see such super-fab weight loss that others with more to lose have. Being a little leaner and healthier is a good thing in itself.

The most important thing for me has been discovering and re-learning a friendly relationship with food. Those last few lbs will no doubt bugger off gradually at some point.

That's how I am thinking spiral - come the salad days when I'm throwing off layers of clothes rather than throwing them on - then I might tackle the last few lbs . I want to learn to eat for maintenance at this weight - I might find that my TDEE is so low at this weight that I would struggle to maintain a lower weight. I'd rather be comfortable in size 14 tops for the next 10 yrs than have one glorious summer of size 12's that I can't get into again (especially as I've given the 16's and 18's to the charity shop!)

I started with a low BMI, 20.5 - I didn't lose much from August to Christmas and like a few others gained some weight at Christmas, not helped from lack of exercise, lack of fasting and progressively eating more and more sugar.
For January, I cut the alcohol, sugar and refined carbs and worked out 5 times a week, monitored my daily calorie intake - kept it below 1700kcal, but I did not attempt to eat back my exercise calories. I lost 11lbs, so some of it was water but my shape is back...I'm trying not to count now and I'm back to drinking alcohol but staying off sugar and refined carbs and keeping fit is something I'd like to do for life whether I fast or not.

Well I have found a really satisfying sweet drink that is going to be my options hot choc alternative for when I need a sweet hit - pukka licorice and mint tea! It's lovely :)

Non fast day for me and was looking forward to pancakes....but our cooker is broken and waiting for a new one so its not meants to be. Another eve of salad and cold meats....might as well be a fast day!! ;)

Catsrus that is exactly what I was getting at. I have had one summer of being a size 10. Fab though it was, I lay awake at night totting up how many cals I'd eaten and if I had to go out on a certain night I'd be in a state worrying about how to cut back enough cals in between to accommodate it.

For me, this is about living normally - I've been on 'diets' since I was 12. Ridiculous. That's over 30 years! Having lost 2 stone on Dukan (then gaining 7 lb and losing about 3 doing this since Aug) I am at least being 'normal'. That's worth EVERYTHING. My TDEE at the mo is only around 1400, even with (moderate) exercise. More exercise, more toning. My life won't change if I lose another half stone anyway!

I am now at my sticking point weight wise, 12st2lbs. I get down to this on most diets and then my body just likes to platau here for a while, which usually results in me giving up. So I need some mega motivation over the next week or so to push through it. I hope to be under 12st by the end of the month. I do feel positive right now so I hope it lasts. I have a couple of nights out coming next week though so my aim is to limit the alcohol and do lots of dancing.

Gosh this thread moves super fast!

Will try and catch up with it all, but for Itsaboatjack according to the article in yesterday's Mail "Although the experts don't fully understand why the 2 day diet regime works so effectively, Dr Harvey says its possible that when you switch to a low carbohydrate diet, your body plunders glycogen stores in the liver for energy. When these stores run out (typically halfway through the first restricted day) the body has no option but to start to burn fat. If you then stick to the low carbohydrate regime for a further day, you could potentially reap the benefits of 36 hours of fat burning. But if you return to normal eating after just one day, glycogen stores are likely to be immediately replenished. If you split those restricted days, it means you have to run down the glycogen stores first on both days before you start to burn fat"

My book should arrive at the end of the week, I'll update more then as I'm sure the book goes into it in more detail.

I decided to start today...the Harvey version is low carb for two days (with an allowance of protein, veg, dairy, fat and a single portion of fruit) rather than restricted calories so no calorie counting required, though I will enter them in my fitness pal to see how it stacks up. Ham and tomatoes for breakfast, snack of milky coffee, then chicken broth with leeks and pepper for lunch and another snack of pepper and low fat soft cheese. So far so good, but my body is screaming for sugar! Any ideas on how to beat sugar cravings?

itsaboatjack - probably best for the next couple of weeks to focus on how you're feeling rather than getting on the scales. I find that fast days I'm focused, quite full of energy and productive (probably in an effort to keep busy!). If you find that you feel good on fast days then continue doing them, enjoy them and try not to obsess about the outcome.
Hopefully if you give it at least a fortnight of good, effective fast days (the usual amount, not 14 days!), then it'll all be good when you do weigh.

lackadaisycal Love the disclaimer! Sounds interesting though, do pass on more pearls of wisdom as you read on.

The only way I've ever beaten sugar cravings is by going cold turkey and avoiding the stuff for several days. I used to regularly have to quit sugar as I get terribly addicted to the evil stuff but these days seem to be able to be moderate without going overboard - maybe the 5:2 or maybe just because I'm more in control than I was. Certainly the 2 days of absolutely no sugar (for me) seems to help a lot.

Thanks Lackadaisycal, I do tend to keep my fast days low carb anyway, and for rl reasons I have decided to do another fast today so it will be two together so hopefully that will give me a boost.

Dotty I will try and stay away from the scales, but I can't promise anything :)

Today's fast seems to be going OK, lots of peppermint tea but I'll definitely get some of the Pukka tea you recommend Mamamoomin.

cold turkey it is then Betsy though I may have to lick my 4yo's chocolately face clean in a minute rather than using the usual baby wipe

I've just put in what I've had so far and what I plan for tea into MFP and it's coming in at 763 calories so a bit higher than 5:2 recommends.

Loving the image of licking toddlers face.... Am feeling the same currently watching my 2yo eat lunch, it's taking ally willpower not to eat his lunch and possibly him too!!! Finding this fat day really hard... Dreaming of twigglets!! On a positive note this eating style really seems to suit me, am feeling good on it and have lost 3kgs in 3 weeks...

My mum, who I haven't seen for a month (pre-5:2), was just round and remarked on how slim, healthy and happy I'm looking

Seconnd hand toddler sugar is bad sugar don't do it lacka and captain! Stay strong and yay, well done captain, brilliant result .

Hi all, another lurker here. Have been reading with interest and did my first fast day yesterday. Split 500 cals between breakfast and lunch and was ready to chew my own hand off by bedtime. Struggled to get to sleep. Might try lunch/dinner next fast day to see if that's better. Friends in RL doing this WOE tell me the fast days get easier - I'm really hoping that's true.

I am trying this WOE mainly for the health benefits, though would like to lose the half a stone I've gained recently. Am struggling to see how it will come off if I do TDEE on non-fast days though. I've read that to lose 1 pound of fat you have to create a calorie deficit of 3,500. My TDEE is 1650 (11,500 per week), so if I have that 5 days and 500 cals on 2 days, I'll only create a calorie deficit of 2,250 over the whole week.

Is it OK to eat at BMR (which for me is 1,400) on the non-fast days instead?

Hi Jiddle, welcome :). I did my first fast that way and got way too hungry in the evening and slept badly -I now split it between lunch and dinner which works a lot better and I find it very easy to skip breakfast.

Don't worry so much about the numbers - lots of people here have lost around 6lbs in the first 3 or so weeks, though there are cases of people on here eating too low calorie on non-fast days not losing anything at all so beware of limiting yourself too much much.

Are you in a hurry to lose the weight? Maybe try 4:3 instead but remember, this isn't a quick fix solution it's a way of changing how you eat for life! The joy of this is there are few rules, so it's easy to sustain.

Hi BetsyVanBell. That's good to hear about how to divide the calories. I'm going to do Mondays and Thursdays as fast days so will try lunch/dinner on Thurs this week. I am not desperate to lose weight (though would like to shift 8 pounds by May), so will stick with 5:2 while I get used to this WOE and keep an eye on any weight loss. Maybe I'll get lucky and not need to go to 4:3 to shift a few pounds.

I did bring a more substantial lunch than usual to work today (non-fast day) - some casserole and rice - as I expected to be ravenous after yesterday. I ate it all but feel completely stuffed now!

Im on my eating day and have had hummus and carrot sticks along with a meal deal from boots for lunch - Tea tonight (after the gym) is southern fried chicken breasts with 5% mcain oven chips! Then....its pancake time! :)

Have a lovely evening all x

Jiddle I've been doing this a month now and still haven't quite learned how much I need to eat the day after a fast - I thought I'd got it sussed but I've been caught out by pancake day, normal lunch but then the kids made me make pancakes just now - had one, eurg, so full and bloated now!

lol at bad sugar Is there a good kind?

Just been doing a bit of research and found an article on the NHS website saying there was no medical evidence of intermittent fasting being good for you? As far as I can see there has been quite a bit done in Manchester at Genesis and also in the US.

I've been doing this a month now and have lost 4lb (now 124lb ie 8st 12lb) at 5ft 2in. Aiming for 116 to 120lb as that's where I've felt best in the past. Yesterday to today I did a 2pm to 2pm fast as recommended by Mimi Spencer in the book, and it felt easier than my usual 'getting-up-till-bedtime' fast. I also got closer to 500kcal than I've done before. My brain also still seems to be in 'fast' mode and I don't feel the need to eat much. That's good as I am just mixing up the pancake batter for this evening :)
I discovered today that Tesco pea and asparagus soup (in carton) is filling and satisfying for 130kcal per half carton.

How does a 2pm-2pm fast work ever2optimistic? Is it: eat normal breakfast, then between 2pm day 1 to 2pm day 2 limit intake to 500 cal then normal dinner on day 2?

In my world that could easily work out at just eating to TDEE over the 2 days - I am probably being thick.

Blindly, I can't keep up with the thread. I haven't decided which and when to fast yet. I am trying to get wheat bloating out of my system first, and eat less. Today I had a small bowl muesli and yoghurt, then small salad for lunch. No snacks. I'm absolutely starving now. Salmon and veg for tea/ dinner/supper whatever you eat at this time. Hoping that bloating will be down by tomorrow.
I remember doing a fluids only fast that was counted from 6pm to 6pm. Which meant you didn't go to bed hungry.