5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Cyclistist
Thanks for the heads up on the gallstones high bilirubin link. My bilirubin count was always high, circa 30umol/l but after 10 weeks or so of 5:2ing it shot up to 77. Don't think there's much I can do about it but thought its worth sharing this side effect with you all.

tumteetum I'm with TIP2 I'm completely honest with the kids. They know what we are doing and why.

How old are your DDs? If you have younger DDs and really don't want them to know could you get up earlier on fast days and say you have already had breakfast?

Sorry have only read the most recent page this moves so fast!

I think its def a good idea to use mfp throughout the week esp if you can have it on your phone as then you can track the calories throughout the day, all those nibbles here and there I forget about add up. I think this diet involves more work for weight loss than I thought it would, but I think when it is working it's brill.

I attempted a 20 hour fast yesterday with only herbal tea but I kept falling asleep and had a headache so ended it after 18 hours. Between 1 and 3 ish I had half a pot of veg soup, a slice of toast, a clemintine, 2 or 3 squares of choc, a small plain digestive and a cup of tea. I then felt brill and energized for the rest of the day. I fasted again for 18 hours apart from a cup of tea with skimmed milk at 8pm, and I had a small skinny latte at the 18 hour mark then lunch (sim to above) three hours later. The second 18 hour fast was so much better, I could have easily done longer and I feel great - will prob aim for 1000 or so cals today and 2300 tomorrow. Won't leave it too long for my next fast hopefuly.

Keep with it for a while duchess and betterlatethan but maybe experiment with drinking more water, calorie counting or any other diet tips that might work along side. Hope it works for you :)

Oh yes and if it hasn't been mentioned recently don't forget dreaded Time of the Month - that adds lbs (as does constipation [too much information smiley] ) !

I just told my kids what we were doing, it's not something I'm ashamed off and it's not a temporary situation, it makes good sense for me and not them and I explained why. They are very skinny kids though and not at all body conscious, not sure how they would feel if they were chubby. They don't like us fasting because we eat different things and we have never done that before - I have always cooked one family meal - no kiddy food in this house! But they have adjusted as kids do. We have always tended towards 2 meals a day at the weekends and holidays..there never seems enough time or appetite to fit in a third meal.

Hi Piebald. I have been looking after ponies and horses continuously for 51 years, and can definitely say that I have NEVER been cold like I am when fasting and still having to do the outside jobs. Several times this week I have seriously thought that I had frostbite owing to the agony as hands and feet warm up.
This is the only negative effect of fasting that I have experienced but I think it is a real physiological change, not just a case of it feeling tougher to fast when the weather is bad. I find that keeping my neck warm helps but apart from that am just suffering.
I feel so sorry for homeless or old people who are also hungry, it makes a big difference to ones ability to keep warm.

I guess children and adults have different needs and thats why my children like snowkey's are skinny and dp and I are decidedly not.

There's some research that says feeling the cold more whilst fasting is a physical manifestation of the health benefits that are taking place. I had a fairly sleepless night - and had to put a pair of walking socks on halfway through the night!

I'll see if I can dig it out.

As an aside, I remember in Helen Forresters autobiographical book Twopence to Cross the Mersey, she commented that desperately poor families would always choose a fire over food unless they were actually about to starve to death.

Thin people will feel the cold more - they are not carrying a few jumpers around with them all the time.
Seriously, at home I always wear a big baggy jumper and thick socks as to keep the whole house at my comfortable temperature would cost a fortune.

putting gloves and scarf on the radiator before heading out into the snow really helps

TiP, I will take your word for it about thin people! I still have plenty of blubber and on non fasting days am no colder than normal in icy conditions but on fasting days experience a strange inner chill when outdoors that rapidly leads to dead hands and feet.
Tis a small price to pay for the benefits and if BandW can find his link it may turn out to be a sign of Good Things Happening Internally!!

One of my skinniest friends never feels the cold, she strides into the playground with a jumper on while everyone else is hunched over in their big down duvet coats. I'm sure an extra layer of fat must keep you warmer too
but I'm convinced some people burn hot and some don't. I have poor circulation, I'd still be cold even if I gained 20kg.

farewellfarewell- I'm coming from an ADF plan, which would be similar to 4:3 -my weeks rotated between having 3 fasting days and having 4 fasting days every week (an every other day rotation, instead of just two fasting days a week). The plan I followed is called JUDDD, if you want to do some googling :) I started it on November 7 and have lost 19.5lbs on it. Now that I'm getting close to my goal weight I'm interested into transitioning into the 5:2 format for maintenance.

farewell
I've only ever done 5:2 - Monday and Wednesday each week.
Have averaged 1.5 pounds a week loss. I weigh myself on a Friday only.
Am now so in the habit of fasting on a Monday I'll stick with that. As my weight drops to target I may well lose the second day.
BUT, I would honestly suggest doing 5:2 rather than 4:3 for several reasons

1. Its easier so you are more likely to stick with it
2. If you are coming down from a big weight, it gives your skin more time to shrink.
3. Rather than a third fasting day, make an extra exercise day as the combination of fasting and fitness seems to be a corker.

I have lurked for a few weeks now and having come out of my closet would like to thank all posters for links posted, comments, recipes etc. I have seen the film and read the book and was inspired to give it a go because of comments on here. My story so far ...... 6 fasts since 4th Jan and needing to shed 20 lbs. Have lost 5lbs so far and its been easy peasy. I am not being particularly good between fasts and am particularly partial to a glass or 2 of red. This WOE works! Oh and I have an underactive thyroid which I take meds for and previously was only successful losing weight by low carbing.

Easiest fast day for some time today .. a small portion of my roasted carrot and red pepper soup late lunch , and just now a HUGE amount of s/f red cabbage and some onion , with a couple of leftover spoonfuls of chilli con carne mixed into it as a sort of seasoning and some extra hot sauce.

YUM! and nowhere near the 500..

The gallstone issue is a bit concerning. So by fasting you could be doing more harm than good as far as the stones are concerned! I wonder if fasting is good or bad for the liver.
I fasted yesterday. I have found today that I have felt less hungry, or if I am hungry then I don't run and grab a snack, I tend to wait it out a bit. Also I find I taste and enjoy more.

Chipstick the article posted before suggested that the bile levels were the same or lower if I remember correctly at 10 hours and 20 hours of fasting it was at 15 hours the risk for gallstones was highest. They suggested longer fasting may be beneficial.

Chipstick
Every "medical" article I have seen links to since starting this WOE on September 4th last year (start of term) has not worried me in the least.

I am financially literate (qualified as an ACCA) and Scientifically literate (DH and I have subscribed to New Scientist for 25 years) and economically literate (saddo reading includes the Economist and lots of tax magazines)

If you actually read the studies (even the Abstracts) rather than the newspaper stories piggybacked onto them - the negative ones fall apart

• excess fasting EVERY day for periods of time
• animal studies where rats did not get the endorphins as they could not read a calendar
• 1970's studies with VERY dodgy participant selection
• opinion pieces in journals with no supporting evidence

etc etc

Every medic I meet at the gym is getting into 5:2 - nuff said.

Quite agree about feeling cold - I have taken to wearing two pairs of socks on fast days, one of them thermal Makes sense though, if your body's not getting fuel it's not going to feel as warm. And I don't really mind, now that I've worked out what I need to do about it (no, not eat!!) I was surprised how much difference it made though, and can see now why DD, who is a picky teenage eater, complains of feeling cold so much. despite our best efforts she doesn't really eat the healthy diet we offer her - you know, with vegetables and stuff

On day two... Yesterday was a fast day and I ate a low cal soup for lunch, a cup of milky tea and a light choices bangers and mash.

Today is an eating day and I have eaten an all day breakfast sandwich, some gingernut cookies, a cream cake, a chicken pie and dauphinoise (sp?) potatoes, a chocolate melty thing and wine.

Surely I can't possibly lose weight from this BAD BOY of a diet?!?! My boyfriend keeps insisting that can't possibly work.