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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

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5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

999 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 20/01/2013 15:24

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. Wink You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request. Wink

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
Bordercollielover · 22/01/2013 19:43

Love the rhyme LG!

farewellfarewell · 22/01/2013 19:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

farewellfarewell · 22/01/2013 19:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/01/2013 19:47

Glassworld
Have you put today's food into MFP and checked it against your TDEE?

I had chicken pie, veg and wine tonight, but lunch was a one slice chicken sandwich and breakfast was tea - so well within my 1900 calorie TDEE

Ch1ckpea · 22/01/2013 20:07

Third fasting day tomorrow! I finished at 7pm tonight on quorn chilli and jacket potato! I have made my lunch tomorrow, tuna, pasta, black olives and a sliced up tomato - totalling approx. 250cals (very small portion of pasta and half a tin of tuna)! I will have one slice of toast with 1/3 tin baked beans later when i get home from work - approx 250cals!

I hate black coffee - do you think a little splash of skimmed milk in the morning will hurt?

Wish me luck - i'm dreading it :-(

bevlaar · 22/01/2013 20:14

Hi everyone! I've just about finished my first fast, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be although I do have a cracking headache now (and I would kill for a glass of wine!). I had dinner last night at 7pm and then had nothing until 1:30 when I had a paltry banana (and 2 cups of bovril - 12 calories per mug, genius!) and then had a slice of toast with 2 poached eggs and a packet of French Fries - anyone with experience does this sound about right? It came in at just under 500cal on MFP.
Roll on porridge tomorrow morning!

Breadandwine · 22/01/2013 20:14

Interesting discussion going on on the 52fastdiet forum:

concerning IGF-1 and protein

I hate black coffee - do you think a little splash of skimmed milk in the morning will hurt?

Ch1ckpea no, but include the calories in your

Frannyfeet · 22/01/2013 20:27

Well it is official, in my first week of starting 5:2 I lost half a stone. Delighted with that result!

I am doing 4:3 this week because it will be easy enough to do around work (I work shifts), so am hoping for a loss this next week of 1-2lbs.

My mindset is totally on my side on this, I don't feel restricted, I feel challenged!

Tomorrow is my first fast of my 2nd week. I am trying to remain under 1700 cals on feed days and today have been just over 1200, so am feeling good, in control and upbeat.

Bordercollielover · 22/01/2013 20:28

Ooh, BandW's link above is worth a look RE the IGF1 and protein, particularly milk. I thought the Genesis diet was very heavy on milk, yet this seems to be saying that milk might promote conditions for cancer to develop.

2madboys · 22/01/2013 20:29

Hi there. Just thinking about starting this. Has anyone tried this by eating mostly fruit during the day and then a normal low cal evening meal.

skippyscuffleton · 22/01/2013 20:30

Interesting recent study on rats doing ADF, with less than favourable cardiac function results:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953475/

Prof Mattson's name is on the paper. It's also worth quoting the following from the paper, paying particular attention to the last sentence:

Only 4 human studies have been published to date on the effects of ADF (31?34). A decrease in body weight and fat mass, an increase in insulin sensitivity, an increase in plasma HDL cholesterol concentration (women), a decrease in plasma triglyceride concentration (men), and decreases in markers of oxidative stress and inflammation have been observed. While these results are promising, the dietary intervention lasted for a relatively short time periods (1?3 months), involved small sample sizes, and baseline (pre-ADF) measurements were used as control values. The present findings of deleterious effects of ADF on cardiac function in experiment on rodents provide a cautionary note to the adoption of long-term ADF regimens in humans.

As ever, over to you to draw your own conclusions...

BetsyVanBell · 22/01/2013 20:34

Just worked out that my 3 meals today clocked in at less than 500 calories - no wonder I ended up eating 1100 cals worth of (mostly healthy) snacks! I'm not on a fast day...

TalkinPeace2 · 22/01/2013 20:36

skippy
how exactly does one explain to a rat why ADF will be good for them?
AND that study is full fasting rather than 25% calorie.
AND it was done forcibly for a significant part of the rats adult lives

do not need to follow the link, have seen that study quoted before and STILL think its irrelevant.
Anything with a strong epigenetic / cognitive impact is worthless in animal studies - especially poor bastard rats who even if they get fit and live for ages still live in plastic boxes in a lab (and I'm in favour of proper medical testing!)

Breadandwine · 22/01/2013 20:37

literarygeek - and anyone else with an interest in vitamin B12. Here's a post on The Fasting Connection forum about the fasting body producing its own B12. I'd read this before elsewhere, but I've been unable to find the reference. Have a look and see what you think:

www.fastingconnection.com/forum/Posts-for-The-Fast-Doctor/13270-do-vegans-need-vit-b12-supplement

I must admit I've never taken any supplement (apart from flaxseed oil) - unless you count Yeast Extract! Grin

stickygingerbread · 22/01/2013 20:38

Thank you ezzza for posting links to earlier threads as well as the tips and recipes topics. I have read 1-3 and 8-10. Hopefully no secrets of fasting are within threads 4-7.

And thanks to everyone for recipes and tips in the ongoing conversation. Love reading what everyone is doing and following the links shared.

Going on week 3 of adf. Cold weather seems to be more challenging, but hot drinks do help. I have cut caffeine as well due to my insulin health issue. That is my biggest obstacle, not adf. I dreamed of cappuccino last night. Maybe there is some way to work it back in occasionally.

I do like the fasted feeing. For people who are struggling on the fast day, I hope you will look at what you ate the day before. There may be room for adjustment there. You may have spiked your blood sugar on the eating day and now have low blood sugar and associated symptoms and cravings on the fast day. But I'm no kind of expert, just throwing an idea out.

I am officially announcing the definite reappearance of my waist. It is one inch above the top of the normal range in the circumference/height scale. I am thrilled. Carry on!

skippyscuffleton · 22/01/2013 20:40

Tip2
Mail your concerns to the folks who did the study, it's not my research. Probably also worth your while pointing out that they are wasting their time. Wink

Breadandwine · 22/01/2013 20:41

And here's a conversation about why we feel cold - not the one I was looking for, so I'll keep looking.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/01/2013 20:42

skippy
I don't need to. New Scientist already have. BUT I wish people would stop popping it (and the dodgy 1970's American one) onto these threads.

Iwearblack · 22/01/2013 20:45

That's right - rats don't have the mantra ' I can always eat tomorrow'!

Like the idea of 'being challenged' on fast days rather than 'restricted' - a good way to think of it as you do have to decide between nutritious yet filling & nice food rather than wasting calories on junk...

frenchfancy · 22/01/2013 20:53

2madboys fruit isn't the best thing to be eating as it has too much sugar so tends to spike your blood sugars.

skippyscuffleton · 22/01/2013 20:55

Tip2
Very sorry for posting this, I'll be sure to pm you any future studies before posting on here.

GreenEggsAndNichts · 22/01/2013 20:55

Glassworld well... I suppose it depends on how much weight you have to lose. If you have quite a lot to lose, and your TDEE is high, then you might lose weight like that.

Generally, as many have said, it's advisable to keep within the normal range of calories your body needs for the day (TDEE, calculator in the OP). You can have a big eating day once in a while because it will average out, but not every day.

OP posts:
GreenEggsAndNichts · 22/01/2013 20:57

I should add, I'm speaking from experience. My first couple of weeks, I did pretty much eat what I wanted, and I lost weight. I was doing 4:3, though. Also, I eventually adjusted my calories on non-fast days, because weight loss slowed down.

You will just have to see what works for you.

OP posts:
mobileshopgirl · 22/01/2013 20:58

Hi all eating day today and its so strange I feel worse this evening after eating normally. Yesterday after my first fast day at this time of day I felt ok. Today I feel so full and sluggish and I don't think I have eaten as much as I have been. Has anyone else found this I was so looking forward to being able to eat anything I wanted today as well. Not sure why I'm feeling like this.

TalkinPeace2 · 22/01/2013 21:00

Skippy
LOL - there are lots of other scientifically literate people on the thread too.

The point is that the research on people is VERY sparse
and much of the research on animals is irrelevant
and especially the scary stuff that the diet industry are quoting has to be taken with a dose of salt as they have a LOT of money to lose if this method works for a lot of their paying customers ....

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