5:2 Diet Thread! Perfect number 10!

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

Michael Mosley has recently unveiled a new website to accompany his new book on the subject. Please go check them out, as he's the whole reason most of us are here!

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

timetigetagrip I do remember reading somewhere about fasting beng linked with gallstones but can't remember where. Have you tried googling. I will see if I can find anything and post back.

ezza thanks for the links. Am going to go look at these now.

Well finished fast day yesterday. Was tough - I'm not really hungry it's just mentally I want to eat in evening when I know I can't. But made it and feel really chuffed. Not weighed yet as TOTM and I am sure weight will be all over the place due to water retention.

Thank you! Oh well - nothing to lose EXCEPT POUNDS! :)

Thanks Betsy and Salbertina! Feeling great thanks, it's amazing how good I feel during and after a day's fasting. Only problem is I do keep getting headaches which I reckon are due to caffeine (and other chemicals that are in diet coke) withdrawal.

Have you resisted the cake Salbertina? Just remember you can have it tomorrow.

Ezzza thanks for the links. I've just listened to the radio interview.

One week on, I've gone to ADF and I still am not losing any weight at all. I am absolutely not over-eating on my eating days. WTF?

The good news is that I feel much better, my skin which is usually reptilian is a lot softer, and I still have loads of energy. I do not seem to have any trouble not eating for 24 hours at a stretch. I am mystified at people nearly passing out from skipping one meal- we're all pretty adequately nourished in this country, how can people not skip one single meal without feeling terrible? I think I mostly eat out of habit.

Keep with it Duchesse you are already reaping some of the benefits of this WOE. The weight loss WILL follow.

Hi again. I am getting off to a slow (re)start, did have a pretty good fast on Thursday but I meant to do another one yesterday but ended up giving up - I did skip breakfast and have a fairly light lunch though, so at least had a bit less than I otherwise would have.

I'm trying to do Mondays and Thursdays as they're (relatively) the best days for me, but Mondays are still hard as we normally all eat together in the evening and I still haven't figured out how to do that without "eating weird" in front of the DCs. Yesterday we had a curry with leftovers from Sunday roast, so I didn't feel as though I could just make myself something totally different. Couldn't eat later either as I was going out. I do sometimes try to do a "half fast" (no breakfast, very small lunch but then normal tea), but easily get demotivated by the thought that I won't manage to stay under 500 cals anyway, so I often end up giving up.

Thursdays is easier as we have a different routine then and MIL usually feeds the DCs, so I can have something healthy later instead. So I am trying to at least do 6:1. But would really like to manage 5:2 at least for a while, to shift a bit more weight before perhaps going back onto 6:1 for maintenance.

They might have undiagnosed blood sugar issues duchesse, I don't know. I haven't had any problem skipping meals, but then I have a more than adequate reserve of fat to fall back on. :)

I can't say why you wouldn't have lost weight. If you are ADF, I'd have expected at least a small shift due to there being less food in your system when weighing in, or whatever. Do you not have much to lose?

I will say there doesn't seem to be rhyme or reason to how I lose. I could have a week where I know I've overdone it on non-fast days and still lose, and a week where I've been really good and not lost anything at all. I'd personally just stick with it for a while longer and see.

Can I just ask a quick question regarding the 16 hour fast - if I drink coffee with milk (I am counting the milk in my 500 cals) is this "breaking" the 16 hour window or not? Likewise with a cup-a-soup, is it counted as a drink or food? Thanks!!!!

Well, I weighed 10 kg less 10 years ago and that was pretty much my ideal weight (58/59kg). Straight after having DD3 3 years ago I was 63kg (everything just seems to work better for me in pregnancy, I'm one of those annoying people) and it just piled back on in the following year. I always seem to stick at about 68kg these days but it's too heavy for me and I have to be really careful not to let it creep up any more. I can easily gain 1 kg in a few days these days simply by eating as much as other people think of as a normal diet.

My major problem is that I'm too sedentary at the moment. I'm waiting for plate and screw removal in my ankle as they are very prominent and rub on my trainers. Rowing definitely loosened them so they do need to go before I can start proper exercising again.

I should add that I've weighed only 72/74 kg at the end of each of my pregnancies, so am only 4 kg off that at the moment.

jadeen I think a few people restrict their calorie intake on Feed days in an attempt to lose more weight. Either that or they increase the frequency of fasts and do 4:3. I am temporarily restricting my calorie intake on feed days by not eating all my exercise calories. Some days I eat 1900, some days 1400 but with the calorie adjustments for exercise I'm averaging less than 1000kcal a day taken over the week but I am only eating nutritionally dense good food - no sugar, very little starch, no alcohol, nothing processed or junky. My weight loss has been rapid. I haven't found it too bad but I miss a glass of red or two, will continue with 5:2, low carbing after Jan but no more counting on feed days and back on the booze!

MyNameIsInigoMontoya, I completely understand not wanting to eat ?weird? in front of the DCs. A couple of things I could suggest would be:

1. try to save all your calories for your evening meal and cook something for everyone which is under 500 kcal per portion. You can get quite a lot of food for 500 kcal, there are some good suggestions on the recipe thread; or if you can?t go the whole day without food (you?re not alone if you can?t, I need breakfast lunch and dinner) then

2. cook something for everyone, you included, for less than 200 kcals (or however much you have left for dinner) full of a variety of vegies (mushrooms are my friends). You can let DCs have rice or pasta or potatoes with it while you just stick to the 200kcal portion. Hopefully DCs won?t notice your food?s different to theirs that way. There are some recipes on the recipe thread that come in this low in kcals.

Eating in front of children
I am perfectly open and honest with mine.
This way of eating is for people who have stopped growing and do not need to create new bones and muscles. You do. So you will have what I am having with a decent portion of veg, meat and spuds on the plate as well
If nothing else it reduces their chances of ever becoming overweight as adults if they grasp NOW what healthy eating is.

drinks during a fast
I tried having black coffee during fasts but gave up and stuck to mugs of tea with semi skim milk.
The gist is still the same though - there is little or nothing for your digestive tract to have to work on so it gets the break needed to clear out all the corners.

Nutritionists say three meals a day
Indeed they do, but with not a shred of scientific evidence to back them up.
For tens of thousands of years, humans ate sporadically, but certainly did not eat till they were full three times a day - guaranteed way of becoming tiger food.
We are merely reverting to a way of eating we were evolved for, without all the daft restrictions on food types and mixes and hours of the day (other than major choices like vegan or kosher) that the "Diet Industry" makes money from.

So after 3 weeks of doing 5:2 and losing 3 lbs, I've started the week on 4:3, fasted yesterday and to my disbelief, my WI this morning showed me gaining a pound! Could I be one of those people that this WOE doesn't actually work for? I do have a not inconsiderable amount of weight to lose...22lbs to get me to 10 stone (I'm 5ft 6), and even that could/should be a little lower to make sure my BMI is towards the lower end.
Not quite sure what I'm doing wrong....had my 500 cals yesterday evening as 2 portions of butternut and chorizo stew with a wholemeal pitta, and nothing else except herbal teas and water the entire day. Today (feed day)was half milk- half water porridge, just had a 2-egg omelette with feta and ham with 5 or 6 thorn tons chocolates and planning salmon with veg for dinner, so pretty healthy all in all.... My TDEE is 1770 and I should be well within that, so anyone got any ideas?
Also, does anyone get acid reflux on fast days? I am assuming since there is nothing in my stomach this is the cause, but I'm interested in others views as it tends to give me a nasty sore throat on the evenings of fast days....

Are you checking your EXACT quantities on MFP?

A single square of chocolate is 100 calories, a thin slice of ham is 100 calories, an egg is 90, Feta is high calorie ....

Agree with tp2 mfp is your friend log in every little thing, I wondered why I wasn't losing as much at the beginning until I worked out that I was eating around 3000 calories on non fast days....

& I've lost 3 stone on this since August so it's doable!

Afternoon all

Timetogetagrip, there's 2 types of Gallstones, those caused by Cholesterol and those by Biliruben. The most common are Cholesterol ones and these can be caused by Fasting and/or high fat diets. Sounds like yours 'may' have been Cholesterol caused as when you cut back on Fats they seemed to lessen. You've done the research so you're aware that they're caused by secretions from the Liver to help with digestion and when there's nothing to digest they can harden and cause Gallstones. Cutting back on Fat as you've done may help AND taking a decent ALLICIN supplement as the active ingredients in raw garlic and onion help to keep cholesterol levels low. Holland and Barret do ALLIMAX, Boots do a similar high Allicin tablet. These 'may' help.....Good luck I hope it works out for you

Thanks to whoever suggested the Rooiboos Vanilla tea (sorry the threads move so fast and I've lost the post) found them really helpful, amazingly sweet for something with no sugar in it

Have a great day and good health to all

Don't despair Betterlatethan. Weight loss is not linear - all sorts of things can affect the scales (they are not that accurate anyway i bet!) plus TOTM can add a couple of lbs. Each week, I have found my weight loss has been: lose a couple of lbs; put a pound on; stay the same; stay the same; lose a pound; lose a pound; put a lb on etc.
Stick with it and there will be a downward trajectory overall (as long as you are not going mad on feed days). It is a WOL so no miracles overnight!

tp2...yes, checking on Mfp, but you've made me think about my portion sizes...I wonder if I am overestimating what I am portioning for myself. I usually do food for myself and my OH, split in two and serve his with pots etc, but I wonder if I'm serving myself slightly more. I'm still in that mindset on feed days of eating 'in case' I get hungry later! I know I'm still in the early stages and I do so want this to be a way of life, but it's disheartening to not see the scales budge after trying hard :(
Thanks iwb. Good to know it happens to others and I hope I look back on this sometime and laugh at how silly I was to worry about such a little thing in the grand scheme of life.

Mind you a square of choc at 100kcal a square is a pretty big square - what choc bars are we talking about TIP? Green&blacks is only about 22kcal per square. We eat mostly Parma ham and prosciutto and it's only between 30-40 kcal a slice. Had an Austrian one last week which was quite a bit chunkier and it was only 60kcals. Mfp suggest 3 slices of lean ham for 100kcal. You're right about the egg though a large one is around 90kcal.

Had my first weigh in this morning, since switching from ADF to the 5:2 plan. After having two normal days in a row (both in the 2,000 calorie range), followed by just one fasting day (470 calories), I was expecting a bounce on the scale this morning. I was surprised to see that I have maintained my same weight and there was no bounce. One of my purposes of experimenting with 5:2 was to see if I could cut back on my fasting days to just two a week and still maintain my current weight. It looks like that might actually be possible :) Today and tomorrow are normal days and then Thursday will be my second fasting day of the week. Next weigh in is Friday!

I'm intyerested in doing the 5:2 diet, mostly for health benefits and to lose just a few pounds. My stumbling block at the moment is that I think I will find it easiest to skip breakfast and eat later in day, but I really dont want my kids to notice me skipping meals. I have always made a big thing out of not missing meals, and we all sit down together to breakfast each day. I dont want them to see me "on a diet", especially dont want to draw my DDs attention to it, worrying about future body image etc.
Any tips on how to handle this?

Just read the thread and realise there has just been some discussion about this

Cyclistist - you are the go-to guy for all health issues. Have noted your answer on gallstones and Allicin, which I had never heard of. I have an 8mm gallstone for years and will watch out to see if IF affects it. Thanks for always being supportive!