5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Aaah, thank you catsrus that will teach me to be too quick to write and not quick enough to read! :)
As for your question on spelt bread, you are correct, it is seen as an alternative to wheat and I find it much more palatable than rye, which is pretty heavy and stodgy. If I had a bread maker I would make it all the time as you don't get the heaviness you get after eating wheat. I don't buy it as often as I wish as it is pretty expensive!

Sorry, that message on spelt bread was for fillybuster! I am new...please forgive me!

Wow! Have been busy for the last couple of days and it's taken me about an hour to catch up with all the posts. Respect!
Had put on weight and hoped it was TOM. Other times I've tried to loose weight I would have given up..this time I just thought, hey ho, I'll leave it a week or so and see what happens. Half a pound off today. Hooray! Love this WOE. Hope you all have a great weekend

That's ok betterthan I get totally confused about who I'm replying to . Well the herbal tea did it (it probably has negligible calories but I don't worry about drinks tbh) - got to 6pm then had my veggie/lentil/chickpea stew with added Harissa (thanks laska for the reminder) and was full before I finished it - so left it (I'm sure the dogs will appreciate it - chilli doesn't phase them). Hopefully I will stay full until bedtime now :)

A rather better Guardian article than yesterday's, featuring Hugh F-W.

I bought the book today The Fast Diet. Not much in there that cannot be gleaned from here but it was nice to see quotes from a few mumsnetters! Back on the 5:2 after Christmas and back down to 9:7, aiming to get to 9 or just below which would be nice.

Oh no!!

I went over the 500 cals today and had 622! Will that ruin my fast day and mean I need to do another? Darn hot chocolate in the snow!

Well done catsrus, another day down! I tend to sleep amazingly well and have the most vivid dreams on the night of a fast....don't know why, but I assume its something to do with my system feeling 'clearer' if you see what I mean.
I've just been for a 40 minute brisk walk in the snow and forgotten that for me exercise is an appetite suppressant. I used to do a lot of mountain biking, and my OH always used to have to tell me when to eat as I never wanted to! Good job too as I've just found another slice of flake cake under some foil, but I don't feel like it now.
Interesting people are talking about their need for carbs on a normal/feed day. I've just analysed my last few feed days and realise they are heavily weighed towards stodge, I think that is another thing to watch for when I'm back on my next feed day (tomorrow).

Will keep you posted!

BetterLate welcome to you and any others who've joined recently (95 posts today - and counting!

I've been IFing for 11 months, nearly, and I'm currently maintaining my weight (lost about 10kg) on 5:2. Which means I need to eat lots on my food days. However, I tend to eat cr@p - cake, biscuits, chocolate, etc. I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to snack on healthier stuff - fresh/dried fruits and nuts.

On my fasting days, I'm completely in the zone, and food (or hunger) doesn't bother me in the slightest. However, when I'm off the leash, I'm exactly as Cyclist described earlier.

But there are a few things you can try - here's what works for me:
The danger time is when I make myself a hot drink - I want to constantly nibble while I'm drinking something. So, to hold this at bay, I set the timer for 10 or 15 minutes or so - I can't have that first biscuit/bit of chocolate/whatever, until the alarm goes off. By then I've mostly finished my drink and I only nibble say, half of what I would have done.

Leave a twenty minute gap between finishing a meal and having a second helping. It takes that long for your food to travel through your digestive tract and set off the 'satiety' signal which tells your brain you've had enough.

If you do over-indulge in the afternoon/evening, have a 'mini-fast' the following day. I've always got something on the stove (the kitchen is my office!) and I often nibble away at this in the evening. If I think I've gone overboard, I'll just miss out breakfast - or I won't eat until dinner time when I'll have a normal meal. I justify this to myself by saying 'Well, you had your breakfast and lunch last night'.

Recognise the 'Hunger switch'. If you don't eat, your appetite doesn't get switched on. If you have the slightest bit of food, the hunger switch goes on and you want more food throughout the day. In fact, after you've eaten, your hunger switch slowly resets itself - until you activate it with more food. Check this out next time you prepare a meal. If you haven't eaten through the afternoon, your hunger switch is 'off'. Leave it until just before you serve up the meal before tasting anything and it will remain off. Start tasting as soon as you pick up a knife - and you'll want to pick all through the meal preparation.

There are loads more tips - and most of them are to be found here:
Tips and Links tread.
There's a lot there, and it's all good stuff.

Best wishes! B&W

Oh no!!

I went over the 500 cals today and had 622! Will that ruin my fast day and mean I need to do another? Darn hot chocolate in the snow!

Frannyfeet, I wouldn't worry about it - when I started, I was having 1200 cals on my fasting days, and I still lost weight. Just put it down to being human and stick to your planned feed days/fasting days.

Good advice B&W! It was such a struggle to get below 800 kcal on fast days when I first started (and I was starving) whereas now, after 4 months, can do 450 easily...
I had a big meal out yesterday, so this morning I skipped brekkie to give my guts chance to process all the cream etc, even though today is a feed day. This felt natural - I really didn't want anything to eat, so didn't eat till lunchtime (and then had chips yum). This is what slim people do naturally!! It isn't seen as 'faddy' when they do it ... (Skipping the odd meals mean).
I discovered Morrissons own brand lime and ginger tea today - only 79p for about 20 bags. I didn't need any sweetener or honey with them and they were tasty!
Well done on the BMI drop souper!

That is a much better article in the guardian. Better, written, more balances, and of course comes out in favour of 5:2.

My favourite bit:-

Could this diet, and the knowledge that underpins it, be harnessed to make a genuine impact on global health and the obesity epidemic? In principle, the answer would seem to be yes. (Though it wouldn't be popular with the supermarkets, would it? Imagine if we all started shopping for a five-day eating week. That'd be more than 25% of Tesco's turnover down the pan.)

Hi fasters/feasters! Have been enjoying catching up on the thread! Have just had a feed day and am planning on a third fast day tomorrow - I was going to stick to two but my parents and in-laws are coming for lunch on Sunday so I know I'm likely to indulge a little (OK maybe more than a little...)!! Although I am enjoying the freedom of the feed days - compared to standard diets when everything seems to be off limits - I'm definitely making more sensible food choices. Today we went out for lunch at our local coffee shop and I chose to have a bowl of tomato soup with wholemeal bread, instead of the usual corned beef pie or baguette I'd have gone for. It felt healthier anyway (unless there was a pint of cream in the soup!!). Also declined cake afterwards, much to DH's amazement - but I was actually full and just didn't need it at the time. Did succumb to half a chelsea bun later but hopefully not as calorific as some of the cakes in the shop!! Am actually looking forward to fasting tomorrow

salbertina I was surprised when i looked in the weight loss section and that thread was no longer active - that's how I found this thread rather than through the horizon programme. Maybe I am misremembering the research associated wuith that diet but I think in part people may have dropped out because although the other diet was linked to reducing the risk of breast cancer the benefits seemed to be associated with losing weight where as 5:2 promises many benefits from fasting in itself, so even when the weight loss is slow there is still the notion that we are doing something beneficial to our body - re alzheimers, diabetes etc?

But yes the rules about what could be eaten were quite complicated and offputting and less easy to fit into normal eating patterns! I think the idea of skipping breakfast, which lots of posters on here advocate, has been the real revelation for me and something I have never done before but it really helps to keep hunger at bay.

Cardiffmummy - healthy choices on a non fast day isnt that a non scale triumph or something like that?

beterlatethan my bread machine spelt bread is usually pretty inedible (sunken with a very hard crust not appealing for family use but quite tasty I thought) - do you have any tips? Sorry for 3 posts yet another bad habit.

Hey everyone who is frustrated by the scales not showing any weight loss, just found this on DR MM's twitter page:

@DrMichaelMosley Any reason why I wouldn't lose weight even if following the diet?

@sawshark1 Initially you lose mix of fat and water. Then just fat, but water
goes back on. So you may be losing fat but not weight
6:53pm - 18 Jan 13

@DrMichaelMosley @sawshark1
That may explain why I've only lost about 4lbs since Sept! I've certainly lost inches and regained my waist.

virginposter - That's good news for those who are not losing weight at present! Thanks. betterlatethan - that's a great name for many of us. Welcome to you and the other first timers and delurkers.

Souper, well done on the fantastic weightloss, 22.8 BMI is roughly what I?m aiming for. It can be a little frustrating when people suggest this WOE is unhealthy. Has DH seen the Horizon program or heard about any of the health benefits? Perhaps now?s not the time, but if in the future after children you want to return to fasting perhaps watching the Horizon program with DH and letting him see some of the health benefits associated with this WOE might help put his concerns about your health to rest. When I first heard about 5:2 I thought it was a fad diet, wouldn?t work and was probably harmful, but I?m always open to being persuaded by evidence so I researched it and gave it a fair go and now I?m a convert! To anyone trying to persuade any stubborn pig-headed strong-willed sceptics (like me) of the benefits, show us the evidence and let us come to the conclusion it?s healthy on our own!

Hi Betterlatethan, welcome! Well done on the loss so far. On my feed days I don?t count calories - I can?t, I?m in China with no acceptable kitchen to use so it?s Chinese takeaway 3 times a day ? but I do try not to go overboard, and I?m trying to snack as little as possible. Before this WOE I?d eat whether I was hungry or not, but now I try to ask myself if I really want it or if I?m just bored and should read a book or something instead.

I have a low TDEE too, so when I get back to Britain I plan to spend a week or two counting calories on feed days, just so I can get a good picture of how much my body actually needs. But I?m not counting for longer than that. I think the whole reason I?m over 4 months in and still going strong is that I don?t feel like I?m on a diet. So if I go a little over on feed days and the weight comes off a little slower as a result I?m not too worried as I?m in it for the long haul. Maybe you could count what you?re having on feed days, just for a week (some on here find myfitnesspal helps).

Hi MisoIsMyFriend, I hear you. With every other attempt I?ve made at losing weight I?ve given up at the first plateau, sometimes not even getting as far as the first plateau as I?d already given up when the weight loss had slowed down to less than a consistent pound a week. This WOE is so easy I?ve just kept on going through all of that. As pookey said, I?ve just thought of the health benefits and kept going.

Frannyfeet I?m with BreadandWine, call your 622 kcal day a success and try again on your next planned fast day. You haven?t ruined anything. Some on this thread started with higher kcal fast days and eased themselves down to the 500, so don?t worry.

Morning! Think it's only us overseas people up?
Had breakfast, flaxseed toast, lovely!

Is it normal for weight loss to be slow at the beginning? I've been doing this for 2 weeks & lost 3lb, just feel a little disheartened. It might just be that I feel like I've got a mountain to climb & at 1-2lb a week feel like I'm never going to get there

Oops just read a few posts down!

1-2lb a week is good steady weight loss. Keep going at that rate and in 6 months you will have lost 2.5 stone. And the good thing with this WOE is that you can stay on it for 6 months without feeling deprived.

I think you are far more likely to yo-yo if you are on a diet that promises 4-6 lb a week weight loss, but is unsustainable. So you manage a month, lose the weight, then it comes back on again (plus a bit).