5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

B&W when you put > don't you mean < (less than)?

lol B&W actually I do! Thanks for that little memory!

I'm getting a cup of coffee and will copy the links for a new thread. I reckon by the time I'm done this one will be close to finished!

Ezzza ah what a great post. :) That's fabulous progress.

Think it's hard to go against NHS advice - but we are all doing so on this thread.

Animal fats are not 100% saturated, they are composed roughly 39% saturated, 44% mono and 11% poly - as far as I know, animal fat provides a good source of omega 3 especially when the animal is grass fed. I think animal fats have been unnecessarily demonised while the food industry continued to hide their use of trans fats, more commonly described on ingredients lists as hydrogenated veg oils - the "veg" part of this name suggested they were healthy fats when in fact universally everyone agrees these trans fats are evil.

I do feel the obligation to do a bit of "nose to tail eating" if your going to kill an animal you eat all of it not just the lean, tender cuts. Ironically that is probably as a result of my dietary history - I was veggie for 25 years, till last spring....I'm a work in progress.

molly thanks for putting me straight!

I feel rather foolish, now!

(Just hope nobody else noticed!)

Sorry to disappoint you, I noticed but didn't like to mention it.

I've been doing this for 2 weeks & have noticed my mood has really taken a dive in the last week (talking PND here). I'm under the care of my GP already so it is being dealt with but things have got worse. I can't think of anything else that has changed so wondered if anyone has experienced similar. I'm just starting to get into this way of eating so don't want to stop yet but can't let my mood go downhill like this.

Thanks literary and Snowkey, I find this fat and oil thing a minefield of unanswered questions. I am a vegetarian who chooses vegan whenever possible , just for the record.

thanks for posting your weight losses. it is really inspiring.
I have tried various exercise and diet programmes before. If there weren't big losses every week I usually gave up as the programmes were hard and difficult to stick to in the long run.
With this it has been fairly easy. have lost 5 pounds in 2 weeks but 2nd weekthe weight loss was 1 pound. But I am not disappointed as so far it hasn't been too hard to stick to. am fasting on mon and thurs just now as its the busiest days at work and usually I don't have time to think about food anyway. Just wish I had found out about this diet months ago.

Just read snowkeys comments RE animal fats above more carefully. Would you not be concerned about antibiotics, copper, growth hormone etc etc that was fed to the animal and then stored in the fat? Or is that a myth?

Hi helsbels74

I have found this WOE mood altering in the opposite direction - I'm much more positive and have more energy - but it may be that there is some conflict with your meds?

OTOH You do have to be careful not to confuse correlation with causation - I.e. something happens at the same time as something else so you see a link (the famous example is the divorce rate going up at the same rate as increase in air travel :) ) - but with something like PND there is the added complication that even thinking there might be a link might cause a mood drop the "damn I can't even do this" factor and depression can cause us to sabotage even good things in our lives. I would go chat to your GP and see what s/he says. Good luck!

helsbels I'm the same as catrus. Even if there was no weight loss and no other health benefits I would probably stay on 5:2 because it makes me feel so good.

I think it might have taken a few weeks for this effect to kick in though so stick with it for a month if you can.

The other thing that has changed this week of course is the weather. It has a dramatic effect on my mood when the weather is bad.

BCL I also worried about all those items in dairy and I wasn't so keen on the heavy processing around soy products or quorn products - My aim has been to avoid processed foods and I didn't want to get all my protein from carb heavy sources like pulses, grains and quinoa.
Choosing the best diet for yourself can send you around in circles, so many people have a vested interest, so many people talk out of their rear end with such authority that they are believed without question and the truth if it exists becomes tricky to uncover. I suppose it's a balance that we all have to find. I don't regret going back to eating meat - many things have changed since I made the original decision and it had become just the way I ate rather than a conscious objection to the consumption....so it was inevitable.

helsbels74 I would say I have felt less depressed on this woe but PND is probably very different than generally feeling a bit down in the dumps. What about making little adjustments maybe uping your calories on fast days and seeing what helps. Are you breastfeeding? x

I survived my fast day yesterday but haven't had such a hard one since the beginning - I couldn't eat my usual porridge at tea time so had 2 crumpets with whey butter and jam. Promised myself a bit of DMIL's birthday cake for breakfast which I have had - was bloody delicious and now cooking paprika sausage casserole for lunch.
I can feel my body changing shape which is great. I am doing alternate day fasting at present to lose as much weight as possible before hysterectomy (poss. in Feb - who knows with NHS). Be nice to only do it 2 days a week once I've had op :0)

Aw B&W I feel < great now! You have > made up with your brilliant advice and encouragement! Shows we read your posts

I am relurking now, just sticking with the WOE and very, very happy with the results so far.

Are we increasing our risk of gall stones by fasting? I heard about someone getting gall stones due to lighter life, and they mentioned that fasting can cause them too. Anyone else heard this?

www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/gallstones

gut.bmj.com/content/21/12/1087.full.pdf

hello all nearly the end of the new year thread then and Im fasting again today .. im one of those that nearly always have 2 meals .. and its worked fine for me am around 21lbs down now....

B&Wand otherbread makers I make sourdough ( with my 8+year old homemade starter! originally from a similar recipe to one of Dan Lepard ) with a mix of rye white and spelt.. and usually find its really good and comes out pretty light..

I just looked at your blog B&W .. do you still make the vegan haggis? if so any idea of the calorie counts? Icould work it out and will if you dont have it to hand , but just thought id ask.....

Bro dont forget about Scorchio if you cant get the Franks extra hot !

was the curry nice? .. We went for the long walk in the snow, pint on the way home then chicken dinner with lovely roast potatoes option.. YUM!

ahhh mustnt think about the left overs in the fridge..

Thanks people. No I'm not breastfeeding. I don't see how the two can be connected either but it's the only thing I've changed about my way of life recently. I might ring the GP tomorrow & see what he thinks.

franchFancy I guess its another thing to keep an eye on but at least this diet doesn't really have rapid weightloss like lighter life. The second article adds more weight to the idea that length of fasting is very relevant

":SUMMARY Gallbladder bile was aspirated from the duodenum in nine healthy women after three separate periods of fasting after a standardised meal. Mean cholesterol saturation index was signi-ficantly greater after a 15 hour fast (1.35+0.08) than after a 10 hour fast (105+0.10). However,
after 20 hours of fasting, mean cholesterol saturation index had fallen to 1.13+0-10. Total biliarylipid concentration was unaffected. These findings suggest that fasting has a series of effects on gallbladder bile and that bile sampling should be carried out at a standardised period of time after
the last meal."

MrsHelsBels there goes my theory you may have needed more cals if bf. Hope your GP is helpful.

laska that bread sounds good maybe I should experiment with mixing those flours - at least it adds some variety. A polish friend told me plain flour is good in rye bread instead of strong white flour have been meaning to try that.

What is in vegan haggis? I love vegan food - ate vegan for 4 months to see if it would help migraines and was the healthiest diet I've ever eaten but very time consuming, I found.
I had normal haggis a few nights ago. It was delicious. 13 yr old DS loves it too - obviously he doesn't know whats in it apart from 'lamb, unspecified'!
The paprika sausages I just made were delicious and so easy.
Slow fry onion, sausages and bacon for about 15 min until brown and sticky. Add tin tomatoes, some tomato puree, paprika, cayenne, salt, pepper and let simmer until unctuous.
I had it with some sourdough bread which was delicious but not very sourdough tasting. I'm really enjoying eating today after yesterdays hard fast. This WOE really makes me appreciate my food and plan what I'm going to eat better. I don't seem to 'waste' calories on rubbish - if I want a crunchie bar, I'll eat a crunchie bar but be very aware of what I'm eating and enjoy it, if that makes sense, rather than senseless scoffing.

kiwigirl here is the link to B&Ws food blog and his vegan haggis recipe.. Im not a veggie even, but eat a lot of veggie food and thought it looked interesting..