5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

The phrase Lies, damn lies...and statistics has been quoted here quite a lot recently, and the Guardian piece linked to upthread is a case in point.

The author quotes a report from the 1970's talking about the danger of Fasting Protein restriction diets which scared the cr@p out of me because I try and restrict my protein intake whilst following this WOE (as per the Horizon Programme and book).

If you click on the link it takes you to an abstract from the report (note abstract) detailing the death of a participant on a sporadic protein sparing fasting diet. You have to pay to get access to the full report, which isn't great but I thought it might be worth it anyway.

Anyway after downloading the full report the aforementioned study participants followed the following regime:
5 months of 300 cals a day, which was administered exclusively via a liquidised protein hydrolite. The participant that sadly died went from 107kgs to 67.2kgs over the 5 months.

....So it was not 5:2, not 4:3, not even ADF it was 5 months of 300 cls a day administered in a liquified protein hrydrolite.............???????!!!!!!!!!!

..ok spoke too fast.. there is a link to the 'big slim' page i've just noticed ..... and we are high on the list at the moment.. but have a look and see what you think

The link at the bottom goes to the weight loss club, perhaps it is supposed to link directly to us? I agree there should have been mention of our support group. :)

snobro? its an Isle of Wight-out here .. been snowing heavily all morning.. DH is on a train somewhere between here and Hertfordshire hopefully he will make it to the ferry ok but looks like he may have to walk at some point ..

Needless to say I didnt go to work . ( but can 'work' at home today..)

Hi all
I'm afraid I'm another lurker who is coming out of the woodwork. I've been browsing these forums for a few weeks or so, thanks for all the support, it's a massive help when you've got so many questions!

I've done 4 "fast" days now over 2 weeks and am starting to get into a routine with them. One was agony, but the others have been fine. My main motivation is to lose a little weight, but also not have that unhealthy attitude to food - feeling you need to eat at set times otherwise they'll be doom and disaster!

I feel so much freer doing this, and it's great.

The only downside I have been experiencing is on the day after a "fast" I often feel lightheaded for a good proportion of the day. It's not hugely uncomfortable, but it's not ideal. I wonder if it is caffeine related - I drink strong coffee...

Anyone else experienced this?

I've lost 5lbs in 2 weeks and that's good for me.

Cheers, Ellie.

very Biased then .. but why i wonder did the researcher allow that to happen?

Balkon
Welcome. Yes, you may actually be rather dehydrated so need more water between your coffees.

Laska Cyclist
There was a LOT of dodgy research done in the early 1970's on epidemiology. Unimpressed with ANY journalist who chooses to cite it nowadays.

Manicbug ..
HI , yes Harissa is fab, if i buy it i get the belazu rose harissa from sainsburys and other places,.. I think its the best ive found but is expensive, but also ive made the harissa out of the Moro cookbook (Sam and Sam Clark) .. it was brilliant.. Heres the recipe , will also post it on the recipe thread later .

Moro Harissa
250g long fresh red chillies
3 heaped tsp coarsely ground caraway seeds
3 heaped tsp coarsely ground cumin seeds
1 level tsp ground black cumin seeds (optional)
4 garlic cloves
1 large red bell pepper, roasted, peeled and seeded
1 dsp tomato puree
1 dsp red wine vinegar
2 level tsp sweet smoked Spanish paprika
6 tbsp extra virgin olive oil
sea salt and black pepper

Slice the chillies in half lengthways. Lay each chilli on a chopping board cut-side up, gently scrape away the seeds with a teaspoon and discard them. Roughly chop the chillies and transfer to a food processor with a sharp blade. Blend the chillies with a pinch of salt, half of the spices and the garlic cloves until smooth. Then add the bell pepper and blend. It is important that the paste is as smooth as possible. Transfer to a mixing bowl. Now add the remaining ingredients ? the rest of the spices, tomato puree, vinegar, paprika and olive oil. Taste and season with more salt to balance out the vinegar. Harissa keeps well in the fridge, but be sure to cover it with a little more olive oil to seal it from the air.

interesting link to the new MN 5:2 page laska well spotted! They are clearly getting on the bandwagon (which is a good thing IMO). I'm working in the snowy south too - and have also stayed home.

I had an asthma review this morning and the nurse was very interested in the diet - took down all the details - and when I started talking about the science behind it she immediately linked it to what she knew about research/advice for heart patients and abdominal fat.

balkon yes - lightheaded feeling might be caffeine related, but it does take a while for your body to adjust to fasting, but once it does it's often very easy. Having said that I have had a few fast "fails" recently but now it doesn't feel like a disaster. I have changed my attitude and have more energy overall - walked to the doctor rather than drove this morning, and have to go out again this afternoon and will walk - to make up for not being in my lovely office with all those floors of stairs to go up and down. I also go upstairs to the loo at home rather than use the downstairs one - when I was 25lb heavier I had no energy to do any of that - it's fantastic!

oh I love harissa! I made a whole lot a couple of years ago with a chilli glut and still have jars in the fridge which are perfectly OK.

Good reminder to get some added to pep up the veggie stew for today!

TiP Another one here who enjoyed your diplomatic phrasing!

MatildaMay this film might give you the impetus you need to wean you off diet coke.

About 20 minutes in, Dr Christiane Northrup describes how brain cells are affected (read 'killed') when aspartame and caffeine are combined. The film then goes on to detail the myriad harmful affects of artificial sweeteners:

www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/92129/Hungry_For_Change/

This has been mentioned before, but the link was buried inside another reference.

I'm back from my 'quick' trip to the supermarket and sipping a cup of lemon, ginger and mango tea. It's very nice! I've also stocked up on sparkling spring water.

Breadandwine - thanks for the link, I'll watch it soon. I do know I shouldn't drink the diet coke, but it's so hard to stop - I must be addicted! Apart from how bad it is to drink, I dread to think how much I spend on it....

Catsrus - I have asthma too (usually well-controlled but been very poorly over Christmas) and am very interested to hear how you feel this WOE has helped you. How long have you been doing this? Has it significantly improved your asthma?

Woop! Week 2 and 2lbs lost....8lbs total. Very pleased as was doubting anything.

I have been weighing on Fri eves after full day of fasting...so extra pleased as did it this morning. Happy fasting and eating all! :)

You've lost 8lb in 2 weeks? How on earth?? .

I've lost 4 or 5lb in 17 weeks and I have at least 30lb to lose.

Hi Matilda

I got a bit of a telling off as I have not been using the preventer inhaler as much as I should - evidently I'm asking a low dose of drugs to do an awful lot so my peak flow was worse than last year. I don't think the 5:2 has had an impact to be honest - apart from the fact I am healthier and more active overall. I have late adult onset "cough variant" asthma rather than wheezing and rarely notice it these days anyway.

I've been doing this since August and lost 25lb so very pleased with it

Wow, 25 lbs is fantastic, catsrus. I'm sure the weightloss and being more active will make a big difference - as long as you take that preventer inhaler too!!!

Mamamoomin - 8 lbs in 2 weeks is absolutely amazing!

I need to lose 24 lbs to be classed as having a healthy BMI (just), though would ideally like to lose a little more.

Anyway, off to read the rest of this thread (up to page 6 so far...) and watch the link Breadandwine posted to put me off diet coke.

Oh god sorry! I don't want to be smug....just pleased. I had 3 stone to lose and have been cutting down to 2000 cals on eating days (from prob about 3000-3500!)...have also been keeping active (still on mat leave to plenty of time for exercise). I'm sure 1st week was water....and it'll prob stall soon. I hope not but could do.

Thread is massive but just popping in to say hi, keep it up, and that my weigh in this morning had me at 9 stone. Started this at end of August when I was 10st 5lbs. People are noticing now, which is pleasing

Mama you are alowd to be smug - that is a great loss - imagine 4 bags of sugar that you used to carry around all the time are now gone :) Keep it up

Breadandwine and Laska thanks for harissa recipes! Actually Laska I think it might have been the Moro one that I tried... I think I was disappointed with it as I have loved most other things I've cooked from that book. Probably just used the wrong kind of paprika or too many caraway seeds, so ought to give it another try (though the inclusion of bell peppers does feel vaguely heretical!).
My absolute favourite is made by Doukan restaurant in Wandsworth - they sell it from massive vats at the farmer's market where we used to live, and I am getting a bit twitchy as I'm down to my last 2 jars .

Hmm...end of week 1 and I've gained 2lbs. Not impressed but I appreciate it might take a bit of time to show any benefits...even so, it feels a bit odd, especially as I was 3lbs down after my first fast (Monday) which all went back on Tuesday, but didn't shift anything at all on Weds, even though I had less than 500cal all day....

I bit poor dh's head off when he said something like "what did you expect from a fad diet?"....!

Will try again next week, hopefully it will start to show...

Have a good weekend all :)

filly you say you were 3lbs down after your first fast (monday) so why are you taking today's weight as your weigh-in weight? Surely you should be weighing again on Monday?
As many have mentioned on here before, it's disheartening to weigh every day as over the course of the week our weight goes up and down by great amounts and really only the end of 7 days really counts.

Nomades harissa (made by Doukan restaurant)
Would definitely win in a fight with Belazu!

Fair enough, I'll weigh again on Monday. I tend to weigh every morning (yes, yes, I know, not helpful or healthy), so its fairly normal for me. Overall, I'm 2lbs up on this week and 3lbs up on where i was last Thursday morning before starting 5:2....and I never ever go down over the weekend....!

Just been trying to catch up with the thread before bed, so:

Thanks Salbertina and literarygeek.

TheCyclistist, I?m so looking forward to those Oaties, and many other things. The food I miss the most, strangely, is toast. Such an unassuming little snack I never thought about it until it was taken away from me.

Anyone tried Dragonfly's Rooibos and Vanilla? I found it felt like a treat at the end of the day when I was doing daily calorie restriction. Plan to go back to it when I'm back in Blightly.

That Guardian article really got my goat. The other articles have bugged me but that Guardian one seemed to be saying ?don?t do 5:2, scientists have proven it kills you?. I figured that abstract was of a significantly more extreme study than this WOE so thanks to TheCyclistist for having a look at it for us. I even felt the need to fire off a little complaint e-mail ([email protected]). Have my goat back now .

ThinkICan, it?s another fast day tomorrow, so if that one?s tough too then I?ll add ?it just means it?s working? to my usual ?you can have it tomorrow? mantra!