5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

BCL Briffa has a v sensible approach. Thing is many will argue that they can eat wheat and sugar and not gain or have food cravings, which I am not doubting in the slightest - I am slightly envious of them But control over sugar is not something I have ever found easy until I eliminated wheat and sugar and now I can have pudding when we eat out but any more frequently than once or twice a month and the cravings start again and I have to go cold turkey until I can get a grip again.

Snowkey are any grains acceptable with Briffa or is it mainly wheat. I know I lose weight when I cut out bread but don't have the will power to do it for long, TBH that's why I want this woe to work so I can still eat cake and toast sometimes.

Sorry pookey I can't remember that much detail and I got the book from the library to read last year, someone else will hopefully be able to help. Oats I don't think are see in the same light as wheat. I believe oats have a more positive effect on blood sugar levels in that they don't cause it to spike as much as wheat. I don't tend to eat them....but I feel very positive about my dcs eating porridge, mind you they add far to much maple syrup...

I have given up bread before in an effort to control my weight and i found that in itself helped because bread is just just too convenient and too easy to eat. When you have to prepare your meals & snacks from scratch, the effort involved will often put me off eating.

Thanks snookey, what kind of family meals do you eat (i am on a budget and children are 2, 5 and 7 - a bag of dry pasta from sainsburys is about 40p - add some grated cheese and peas and it's a rare meal we all eat without complaint )

I agree btw snookey bread is too easy, my ds doesn't even like homemade which is a little more filling, he likes the 'flat' bread from the shops!

Just catching up on posts below and saw the Vegetables: High or Low in Carbs? debate up thread.

It would be correct to say both, depending on how you look at the numbers. For example, it is correct to say that carrots are 9.6% carbohydrates. It is also correct to say that carrots are 91.4% carbohydrates. How come? It depends if you are talking about percentage of weight or percentage of calories.

100g of carrot has 42 kcal and 9.6g carbohydrates.

As a percentage of weight the calculation is 9.6g/100g=0.096, so 9.6%.

As a percentage of calories the calculation is different. 1g of carbohydrate is roughly 4 kcal, so the calculation is (9.6x4)kcal/42kcal=0.914, so 91.4%.

I think thecyclistist was referring to percentage of calories from carbs rather than percentage of carbs by weight.

? any wonder it's said there are lies, damned lies and statistics?

(Source links: Carrot nutritional info caloriecount.about.com/calories-carrots-i11124?size_grams=50.0 and calories in a gram of carbs www.livestrong.com/article/81042-calculate-percentage-calories-fat-carbohydrate/)

Chestnut and others who haven't lost weight in the first week or so, it's been reported that due to metabolic differences some people take 3 weeks or more before they see the first bit of weight come off. But the loss process does kick in eventually. I think this info came from the "5 diet" website - that's the plan where one eats only during a 5-hour window. Sorry, I don't have a link. It was something I came across while browsing around the GettingStronger website and reading comments. Be persistent, be patient.

Re miso: TIP's recipe (several pages ago) is good. I would also suggest adding soy sauce, rice vinegar and a few drops of sesame oil, which make the soup really rich tasting for very few extra calories.

B&W, earlier I left a comment on the T&T thread thanking you for the video links. (I strongly recommend watching.) At the moment, though, I could almost curse you for talking about your curry and those scrumptious mushrooms. I'm at the hungriest patch in my 32-hour water fast and the visions of veggie-stuffed mushrooms are driving me mad.

A lot of pages upthread someone asked about 6:1 for maintenance. That's what I've been doing and it's working well. Being a lightweight, I started the fasting solely for the health benefits. I've had to increase my previously normal eating to make up for the missed calories. Sometime down the road I may cut back to a 24-hour fast or have a go at the 8-hour window a few times a week instead. For now I think a weekly one-day water fast is more likely to help deal with an assortment of minor complaints. For sure it's improved my energy and digestion and overall sense of well-being.

I need some reassurance please (sorry to be one of those needy newbies....) - I was doing ok(ish) until I had a 196kcal bowl of soup at 2.30pm with a handful of plain spinach leaves. Now I'm so hungry, I can't imagine how I'm going to make it through to midnight tonight on just a small piece of salmon and some green beans. I've drunk more herbal tea so far today than in the previous 3 weeks combined....help!

Filly, I'm sure you can make it through today. A bit of anecdotal advice - it's much easier to fast all day and eat a proper meal in the evening, than eat early (seems to open the appetite and dull the focus) and then have fewer cals left for dinner. That's only my experience.

Thanks for the support. You're probably right - but I can't make it through a full time job plus 3 dcs homework & bedtmie on an empty stomach....I get too lightheaded and grumpy!

Problem is now, as you say, I've opened my appetite up and I'm staring down the barrel of 300 kcals from now until bedtime.

At this stage my commitment is wavering fast....there's a voice in my head suggesting that if I just stick to 1000-1200kcals a day, every day, that will do the trick

I think it would be easier if there was any chance of my dh being remotely supportive when he gets home!

Pookey I have kids who'll eat most things and my budget isn't terribly limited, so my menus would probably not be much use to you. I can post them if you want though.

Briffa suggested not putting kids on low carb - he suggested potatoes were probably the best carb for them, so I tend to give them all the varieties of potatoes - chips, roasties, rostis, mash. Also tougher cuts of meat, cheap and tasty when slowly cooked. Eggs - we go through dozens. We eat loads of curries & stews. Loads of soups with double cream to thicken. They get pasta once a week, usually on a fast day - it's a favourite!

Can I add in a lunch suggestion for fasting days? I'm taking some button mushrooms and a piece of lemon grass into work, with a small box with stock powder. At lunchtime I split the lemongrass in half and put it and the stock powder at the bottom of a bowl, chop over the mushrooms, then add a little chilli and ginger (jar in the fridge) and sometimes remember to take a clove of garlic. I put in a little hot water, then cook for 4 mins in the microwave (covered). I top up with more boiling water and season with soy sauce.

Its got lots of flavour, even if its lacking in calories.

Filly- does it help to think you can eat what you want tomorrow, not strict 1200 cals? What wd you like tomorrow??
Have some fizzy water and a nice, relaxing bath when you get home

I wonder if my personal challenge is more to do with understanding the how rather than the what of eating? I don't often eat much over 1600kcal/day anyway, so the promise of 'jam tomorrow' doesn't really cut it - and I'm a healthy food/cook from scratch kind of girl most of the time anyway. But I don't like feeling quite this limited, and I suspect its more psychological than actual (ok, I am hungry, but I frequently don't eat more than a bowl of soup before 9pm and it doesn't normally bother me). Hmm...interesting, anyway :) I'm clearly far far too focussed on food....

Filly if you only eat 1600kcal a day you can't be overweight - are you doing this for health reasons only?

Struggling for the first time today (4th fast). Have had several drinks and just had a bowl of soup. But feeling a little light headed, tired and "spaced out". Just having a cup of tea in the hope that a bit of caffeine might make me feel better. Am supposed to be going to the gym in a couple of hours - first time I've tried exercising on a fast day - bit worried I'm going to fall off the treadmill!!

filly I also had salmon and veg as my very first fast dinner and found that it wasn't very filling as the salmon is high in calories.
Perhaps you could leave the salmon till tomorrow and add more veg and make a lovely filling veg soup?
Or failing that, increase your calories to 700 for today and then you can have a decent meal. Lots of 5:2ers have sometimes gone up to 700 cals on a fast day - we're only human

Hi all, new to this and been reading (all day...at work!) other's experiences on the 5:2. I started last Friday on a 4:3 plan.....so far so good. Not finding the fast days too difficult (on my second one today) - think not eating until the evening meal will definitely work for me as breakfast tends to make me hungrier. I went a bit over on Saturday/Sunday (use myfitnesspal.com to add cals), so I'll be a bit tougher on myself in future. Hoping to lose around 2lbs per week....achievable?

filly i have 2 DC's and also get grumpyand lightheaded if I don't eat so i eat twice a day, would really recommend a thick soup to fill you up, yours sounds a bit lightweight? or maybe a boiled egg.

for now have a hot drink to fill your stomach and remember that the hunger pangs go in phases, whatever you are feeling now will pass and in 2 hours it will have subsided, the feelings down't increase incrementally as the day goes on.
just think ahead to your salmon which you should eat eally slowly, savour the taste, don't wolf it down and then by the time you get your next hunger pangs it'll be so much closer to bedtime. if you need to go over then it's still early days, but remember how good you'll feel tomorrow if you do make it? and then you can have what you like.

hang on in there, you'll be fine!

filly our posts crossed

cardiffmummy go slowly at the Gym and listen to your body. I run on fast days but I always go out slow and only pick up tempo when I have the energy to do so, that way I can't talk myself out of exercising and quite often my body surprises me.

Peggy, 2lb a week is possible if you have a lot to lose. If you are close to healthy weight then you should aim for 1-1.5.

Well, I'm 11st 8lbs (awful seeing that in black and white) and 5ft3, so would like to lose 2st. I know fast weight loss isn't great, but think when you find something that hopefully works, it's tempting to want to do as much as poss. 2lbs would be great though

Thanks all. Salmon is back in the freezer for a non-fast day....I hadn't realised that it was high in calories. I'll defrost some home made veg chilli tonight....its quorn mince, onion, red kidney beans, tinned tomatoes, no oil, and I freeze fairly small portions so will hopefully be ok if I just have a very small amount of rice or potato. Gosh this is hard!

My lunch soup was very chunky - beans, buckwheat and veg - and was lovely whilst it lasted but I felt terrible after....definitely psychological as I have been known to have just that (ok, and a slice of bread) for lunch on other days, and not felt consumed by hunger immediately afterwards.....:)

Snowkey - I can easily eat 2500 or more some days! I'm not overweight by any measure, I don't think....5ft 7", currently 9st 13lbs and a size 10 but much happier at 9st 7lbs. DD2 (DC3) is 2.5 and I haven't got below 9st 10lbs since she was born, even when I was excercising daily on maternity leave - now I'm working in the office full time, that option has gone out of the window! I was 9st 3lbs before conceiving ds, but only managed that by living on salad, 9st 5lbs before conceiving dd1 and 9st 7lbs before conceiving dd2. I'll settle for 9st 8 but would love to get back to 9st 7, and reckon some concerted 5:2ing plus using the xbox kinnect excercise programme dh just got me might combine to get me there....maybe...?

I'm a big fan of chewing gum to help with food cravings! Or a mug of scalding hot peppermint tea....
And as mumocnk says - the hunger pangs will ease off .....