5:2 Diet Thread! Number 9, welcoming the new year...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. You'll find a lot of support here.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules. This might be a good place to catch up with us if you're feeling a bit lost!

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

B&W has found a new link to the aforementioned Horizon programme here. If you're keen to see it, watch it soon, because BBC has been quick to find these copies and shut them down online. We're hoping they'll re-play it again soon. I know these threads are popular, maybe they'll read my request.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day. (This is a new calculator to previous threads, this one seems to give me approximately the same results the last one did, but without the virus warnings on my browser!)

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

RE veg, I agree with the posters above about veg not being satisfying. There was some recent research which also showed that veg does not bring lasting satiety. As a lifelong vegetarian who became obese until finding this WOL, I find that a mix of veg and protein is best for me. I don't worry over much about plant based fats . What is very significant for me, though not for everyone, is to keep fruit to a minimum and initially to cut out grains . Both this seemed to cause blood sugar havoc followed by overeating. After 6 months of 5:2 neither is a problem any more.
It really does all vary with individuals and sometimes trying a new variation brings surprising enlightenment!

bordercollielover I agree (jumping on the bandwagon of this debate a bit late). I'm not a veggie though do tend to eat a mainly veg based diet .

There does seem to be some confusion echoed in Dr Ms book about whether its better to have low or higher protein on fast day ..Prof Lungo recommends low protein plant based . Dr Varady seems to suggest it doesn't matter. but Dr M now eats higher protein on fast days it seems despite there being a reference to lower protein in his book . (and so do I).

However what does seem to be pertinent to not experiencing hunger high and lows on fast days if not eating grain and other carb based foods and fruits as these will affect your insulin levels more.. . Of course there's no restriction, people can eat what they like as long as they stay within the 500 or 600 cals , but those of use who have been at this some months now seem to agree that protein and veggies are the way to go/

I'm one of those who have doggedly stuck to 2 meals a day right from the start and have lost really well . was harder at first but now not so and as if you are new to this WOE you go on you will get used to it . I now restrict my fast days to an 8 hour eating window ,to make sure i get get my 16 hrs (or more) in. Also I always have the same on fast days .. 2 eggs and thin slice of ham tomatoes or mushrooms for breakfast made into an omelette then either and fish and veggies for dinner or veggie soup.

if anyone is interested on more on carbs and diets(not extreme low carb) and also how the health evidence on diet may be flawed . I would strongly recommend you read Escape the Diet Trap by Dr John Briffa. its good about diet and the diet industry and explodes some 'myths' and at the end he talks a bit about IF (but this was written early last year) before the 5:2 thing broke. He also has a good blog

BTW this morning I was back to only 1lb off my pre christmas weight!..

Hello all. I started the 5.2 diet back in November after watching my brother lose 1.5 stones. He claims it has changed his way of eating forever. However I started it and really struggled through December - pesky Christmas! So i'm back. Today is my first fast day and so far it's going ok. I have had three cups of tea (i'm addicted), I have will have half a tin of Baxters healthy minestone soup for lunch and steamed salmon and veg for tea. I am quite looking forward to gaining some control. i'll keep you up to date.

Morning all, well lost 9lb so far of the 12 gained over Christmas after going back to 4:3, so on the way and feeling a lot better than I did when stepping on the scales on New Years day .

One of the strengths of this WOE/WOL is the fact that you can adapt it to what suits your body best. Having said that though one of the main principles of this WOE and the health benefits it can give, is keeping to a lowish protein regime (about 50-60g per day). Obviously refined carbohydrates don't help with insulin sensitivity or satiety at all but those advocating 'low-carb' , don't seem to be following one of the main points of the Horizon programme or the Mosely/Mimmi book.

I'm not knocking those talking about keeping sugar to the minimum 9 Bordercollie and co* ), as sugar seems to be at the route of many of our problems in the West but if you were to 'low-carb' what would you replace carbohydrates with if not Fat or protein. Vegetables are on the whole between 60-80% carb .

Apologies for sounding like the Carb Police again as this WOE has as its major strength it's very diverse nature but all the evidence (to date) seems to suggest that keeping protein consumption fairly low is a key to the health benefits kicking in....

AND my second rant this morning (apologies), if you want this WOE to work long term then setting unrealistically low calorie targets on your normal days will lead to success short term but can't be overly healthy and will be harder to sustain long term.

Well got that off my chest, rant over. Good luck to all today especially to all those newcomers and delurkers and hi sis did you get the bike out of the shed this weekend?

Hi Laska just seen that I cross-posted with you. There doesn't seem to be any confusion in the book, it's quite clear he recommends 64g grams per day for a male of his weight.

The plus about protein is it adds to satiety, probably why he eats a fair proportion of it (but still below what the average Westerner consumes) on a fasting day. Congrats on the weight loss

Bro Um...... no
List of excuses follows . 1. Was tipping down..2. I had to help DS (22) move ( he's gone miles away on mainland to try and find work and I'm feeling really . and 3. I have an creative writing assignment to get in .. ( 2 weeks ago .. am on last chance and still haven't quite finished it.)

So have taken to day off.. and really shouldn't be here at all ..

Actually after what I just said about protein, I do agree with Cyclistist I dont to go over the 50/60g a day protein either and I dont think DR M does by what he says about his eating .. its just that I dont do refined carbs on fast days

more x posting bro !! we agree then! Good ,

Morning all! Weighed this morning & have lost another 2lbs.

To all the new fasters, consider taking a multivitamin on fast days - I feel it helps stop the cravings (for me).

It must be hard when they fly the roost

...and if your creative writing is anywhere near the calibre of your posts on here then you'll breeze through

Veg on the whole is mostly water not carbs. Carbs are depending on veg mostly under 10% carbs. I'm not advocating any diet, I'm just saying the plants don't tend to satisfy me, I need the protein element and apart from eggs, its tricky to get that on a veggie diet with out adding masses of fat or carbs, from pulses, rice, and grain. And I don't want to eat processed soy product.

Laska42 good luck with creative writing assignment, hope you get a surge if creativity and finish it quickly!

Have only read a post or two since sat but The cyclist I like your rant, I have done low carb before and always gained an extra stone or so afterwards - also each time it gets harder to stick to. I want to avoid that this time. I was having rice with veg as my main meal which was quite filling, soup also even the ones with chicken are prob not that high in protein. beans are a filling plant based option so must be possible to do this combining the healthy plant based and filling protein methods. Still plan to eat meat weekly though and idealy would like to eat more fish.

Trying hard to fast properly for first time in a week or so. being challenged; I made dd some toast with homemade bread and butter which she wont eat and I am keeping in case she changes her mind. V difficult not to gobble it up!

Have had 2 teas and about to have my second coffee. I do def think water would be my best option but haven't managed that so far, if the body needs a break from processing food it prob also needs a break from caffine but so hard to do!

Good fating or eating today 5:2 ers!

Oh no not good fating the opposite

Apologies Snowkey I wasn't referring to your post, in fact you seemed to be saying that you followed a lowish protein diet anyway (below 60g).

Of the calories though in carrots 80% are made up of carbohydrates, in cabbage 55% carbs and cucumber 60%. So my point is that veg is basically a highish carbohydrate food, one of the reasons I find all the high protein Atkins like diets so worringly bad for long term good health. Apologies again if you felt I was referring to your post...

Depends how you low-carb, am not an Atkins advocate, rather John Briffa (Escape the diet trap, who also recommends intermittent fasting at times).
I have lots of veg but the lower carb options of salad greens, mushrooms etc hardly ever carrots, sweetcorn etc

Morning! Just marking my place as the thread is moving so quickly, I'm struggling to keep up!
Had bizarre weekend. Put on 3lbs between Friday night and Saturday morning!!! I'm hoping it's TOM related but if it's water retention, I'd have thought it would have shown up on the scales as water percentage. But they're not that accurate are they, these scales? Alternatively it could have been sampling the home-baking I was doing for a coffee morning on Saturday. Although I did donate a large amount so I wouldn't have eaten that much, surely!
A fast day for me here, and have been for a run so feeling positive

Personally I find veg very satiating! A plate of veg curry coming in at less than 200 calories leaves me absolutely stuffed - and, if necessary, that'll last me until bedtime. However, I always weaken and use the rest of my calories on fripperies - if wine and beer can be described as such!

I don't purposefully count my protein intake - I read somewhere that you should have less than .8g of protein for each kg you weigh (I'll find the link). Which would give me a daily allowance of 48g of protein. I'm pretty sure I don't have that much. However, there are others who say that .8g is too much - once again I'll find the link.

Talking about stuffed mushrooms, as we were upthread, I had them for dinner last night and they came in at 247 calories for two field mushrooms - stuffed with mushroom pate and vegan pesto. Simply gorgeous! I'll put the recipe on the recipe thread.

Just read your post, Cyclist and I wonder where you're getting your info from? I've just looked at the carbs for cabbage and carrots and it comes in at 3.2 and 5.7 respectively - and cucumber is 3.63. Vegetables are extremely low carb, IMO!

Didn't finish dinner last night until 7pm - blooming pudding! - so 7 hours to go for the 24 I generally aim for. Not in the slightest bit hungry - had a mug of warm water, so far - but time does go slow when you're clock-watching!

Starting my fast - week 2 (second time trying to do it). Lost nothing the first week, may even by half a pound up. Did not pig out at all, probably ate a bit less than normal plus more exercise. I gave up after week 2 last autumn as I lost no weight.

I did lose 4lbs before christmas eating in a 8 hour window most days - I'm not sure I would get the same health benefits.

I'm at the top end of BMI and would like to lose at least half a stone to fit into my clothes. I will give it a month this time.

Are there people it doesn't work for? Is it because I'm a woman over 40? A former anorexic? I just don't know.

Chestnut, do your clothes feel any looser?? If you're exercising, you may be gaining muscle which obv weights more than fat...

No problem thecyclist I tend not to eat grains & sugar, grains once a month, I have potatoes once a week - homemade chips to accompany a steak, maybe pulses once a week, had very nice chilli tomato chickpeas for my dinner on Saturday . I added a couple of teaspoons of sugar and some pomegranate molasses to a sauce last night and I don't limit my veg intake at all - what I eat is still a low carb diet....it's not a zero carb diet (not even Atkins is zero carb) and it doesn't slavishly follow any one person's idea of a diet. If I eat more carbs than this I start to have food cravings especially for starchy and sugary foods. It's a diet that suits me and my lifestyle, many people don't enjoy low carb, I don't enjoy low fat diets or processed food...I eat low fat on a fast days but the flavour of my food suffers.

We all have to look for diets that suit our food culture and bodies.

chestnut it seems to work better for men. Did you just weigh on the first and last day of the week or everyday? Quite a few people have mentioned that a weekly weigh in can give false results if the initial weigh in is the lowest weight fluctuation of the day and the second weigh in ia at the heighest weight fluctuation of the day so daily weigh ins can be useful. Also drinking 8 glasses of water can help to give better weigh in results apparently maybe because it prevents constipation (I am atea drinker so find this a chore but worth a try)?

8 glasses of water a day that is, not 8 glasses before stepping on the scales that would prob have the opposite result!

Hi B&W I've put the link below, I take the stats from the pie chart showing the distribution of nutrients by % per calorie value.

www.weightlossresources.co.uk/calories-in-food/salad/raw-carrot.htm

Those links you posted in the early hours (do you ever sleep ) were very interesting, cheers.

Snowkey, I think I eat a vegetarian version of what you eat. After a lot of research before this WOL and discovering John Briffa about a year ago I finally made the , to me astonishing, discovery that fruit sugar and grain based foods were the cause of my overeating and obesity. Previously I had thought it was only refined sugar and grains which were my problem . Not so . Big revelation for me.

Good luck Fillybuster - if you have a busy job you'll probably find it quite easy as you can distract yourself. I'm only on week two but have done my fast days when I know I'll be fairly busy and they've gone surprisingly quickly.

Is your veg curry recipe available somewhere please BreadandWine ?

I've spent the past 4 hours thinking about food (and reading this thread) when I should have been working - the odd thing is that I don't normally eat breakfast anyway.... Although I'm developing a tea-withdrawal headache (lots of lemon and hot water so far)...time for some black tea and lemon soon.

wrt the chai discussion downthread, I've got a bit of a herbal tea collection....the best 'real' chai is the black tea dragonfly version, and their roibois (redbush) chai, which is caffeine free, is excellent too, but I've had to order direct from their website the last few years as very few places seem to stock them (Fresh and Wild do somethimes). Celestial Seasoning do a great range of different chai-style caffeine-free teabags - the Bengal Spice is especially nice. The best thing about these ones (and the redbush chai) is that you don't feel you're missing out by not adding milk.

I'm thinking about a tin of Waitrose Love Life veg soup for lunch (or porridge), and maybe some oven baked salmon and a lot of veg for dinner tonight. How do I find out how big a piece of fish I can eat, for example?

Sorry for asking stupid questions...