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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

991 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 19/11/2012 12:57

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. Wink

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
GreenEggsAndNichts · 02/12/2012 14:11

Good.. I was just trying to explain some of the skepticism I feel. I'm not saying there isn't a market for a book on the subject. I suspect a book should do rather well, actually, as there has been a lot of word of mouth since the Horizon ep. And as someone else said (TIP perhaps?) that will give people something to point to when they get questioned on the topic. :)

OP posts:
Thegirlinbrighton · 02/12/2012 14:35

Greeneggs, what you said got me thinking - I wonder how long before the diet 'industry' starts launching a counter-offensive? When you think about how much money is invested in diet products and shakes and supplements, not to mention Orlistat etc (which I was on the point of trying before I started 5:2, I was so desperate). I know there was a very critical Mail piece way before they did the positive piece last week but this is quite a threat to the whole business. I know my bills have gone down a lot!

GreenEggsAndNichts · 02/12/2012 14:59

Yes, I have been thinking that, as well! Even though most low-calorie items are already labeled as such, they'll need to market something with a special IDF or 5:2 label on. Perhaps snack bars or drinks. Rice cakes. Not at all different from regular rice cakes but with a different label on them, so people will buy them. A bit like Atkins products, I never tried that plan but I could see that many of them were just foods which were already on the market, but with the carb content highlighted and the price marked up! Hmm

Our bills have gone down quite a bit. I mentioned it at some point, but I've actually started buying a few nicer items than we would get in our normal shop, because we might as well have something special from time to time on our non-fast days. :)

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 02/12/2012 15:20

The Diet "industry" relies on failure.
WW hate people like me - did it for 9 weeks ten years ago, sussed what I needed to do and never went back.
I then let my weight creep back up by 1/3 over the years (actually 5lb of that was stress this summer)
and found an easy way to rebalance

There are people going to the local WW meet who were there when I was.
FFS which bit of eat less, do more do they not get ?!?!?
BUT
WW / SW / Atkins / Dukan : all rely on people 'falling off the wagon' to sell their products.

I will NEVER on principle but a branded diet product
partly because I've read the ingredients they add to make it 'low fat'
and partly because one of the things that screwed my sister's kidneys before her transplant was slimfast.

This is an entirely personal view, but if VAT was added to every food with more than 5 ingredients on the packet, then the obesity problem would shrink away in a matter of months ....

Laska42 · 02/12/2012 15:48

hmm... quite a few 5:2 diet books on Amazon and Kindle I see now.. but as has been said , people often think that it cant be a proper diet without a book ....
girl in brighton no offence meant to you personally .. just one of those things..

Laska42 · 02/12/2012 15:51

....and last but not least I hope., congrats on your Fab results cyclistist

I'm having a rare Sunday off fasting.. Back on the waggon tomorrow..

Thegirlinbrighton · 02/12/2012 16:01

Greeneggs, I've actually bought a recipe book with some of the money I've saved! Which seems a bit weird but I LOVE recipe books.

TIP you're so right - I am also so horrified by some of the stuff we've been sold over the years about 'grazing' and snacking. Now that this WOE has re-acquainted me with appetite and what being hungry feels like, I do feel it was terrible advice. Of course, we're all different, but surely requiring the body to produce insulin all the time is mad. Especially because insulin is lipogenic so it's encouraging us to lay down fat - great for Stone Age people who needed the stores, rubbish for us.

Thegirlinbrighton · 02/12/2012 16:09

Laska42 No offence taken! I noticed loads had gone up between having the idea and finishing... feel a bit left out as mine doesn't feature a girl in a bikini, a tape measure or someone hugging their bathroom scales...

GreenEggsAndNichts · 02/12/2012 16:27

oh yes I see there's several on now. Shock Including at least one which hasn't been released yet. Get in. :)

I love cookbooks as well. I got through my first week or two of fasting by planning all the lovely things I'd cook the next day. Tried several recipes from the Paul Hollywood baking book. Christmas is coming now, though, so it's time for the old favourites...

OP posts:
Thegirlinbrighton · 02/12/2012 16:47

That was where low-carbing went horribly wrong for me, Greeneggs. Baking is my first love and so doing without sugar was never going to work. I did get to my lowest adult weight that way but as a result I had huge guilt issues around bread, cake etc. Whereas I made the best Jammy Dodgers from the Peyton and Byrne book in the first fortnight of this diet and it hasn't affected my weight loss one teeny bit.

literarygeek · 02/12/2012 19:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TalkinPeace2 · 02/12/2012 19:34

literary yup. My point exactly. Cook from scratch. Find that time or eat more simply. or be willing to pay.
Innocent and pukka would magically switch to four ingredients right away - quavers would have more of a problem ....

pip895 · 02/12/2012 19:58

I like innocent pots too - we often have half each with a little grilled chcken for dinner on a fast day. Smile

pip895 · 02/12/2012 20:00

Talkinpeace - dont think they would be as good with only five ingredients Confused

Bordercollielover · 02/12/2012 20:28

TIP, would you mind checking the link you posted a page or so back? I read the paper in search of the endocrine function you mentioned but what I was reading seemed to be a study of the reliability of obesity predictors in early childhood. I would like to read whatever it was that you saw as I am particularly interested in the effects of abnormal blood sugar behaviours in non diabetics.
Thanks!

TalkinPeace2 · 02/12/2012 21:11

Bordercollie
that paper was a step on the route
this one is more so .... circ.ahajournals.org/content/119/13/1720 (reference ten in the first one)
epigenetics is such a new field that the research is still crystallising

Breadandwine · 02/12/2012 21:15

"...one of the studies, the Spanish research that was ignored for so long due to translation errors, was so interesting with regards to people living longer and better even though they only started intermittent fasting very late in life. "

Hi TGIB

If 75 can be considered 'very late in life', then that includes me! Smile

I began IFing in February this year, and I'm very interested in the research you mentioned - any chance of a link?

Reading between the lines it sounds like any care home resident would benefit from fasting?!?!?

babbas · 02/12/2012 22:22

Have to say I'm a but weary of any books or merchandise relating to 5:2. But I suppose it was only a matter of time before writers and publishers caught on to this idea. I just love the simplicity of it and I think anything further in terms of books or merchandise would complicate it. Well done on your loss though TGIB. And I'm sure your book is better than the glossy covered ones I saw in asda yesterday.

TisILeclerc · 03/12/2012 05:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Jossysgiants · 03/12/2012 07:39

Morning all, may I join you? I am 5:4' 9 12 and I would like to get down to 9 stone. First fast day today!

pip895 · 03/12/2012 08:09

Jossysgiants - Welcome to the Monday morning fast brigade! Grin

Jossysgiants · 03/12/2012 08:12

Thanks pip! I am excited - sounds like a WOE which can really work. Even had black coffee just now and it wasn't so bad...

TheCyclistist · 03/12/2012 08:18

Hi Sis , hope the day off fasting went well. I'm such a creature of habit I always seem to find it hard when I swap round one of my low cal/normal days.

Fasting day here so trying to get myself mentally 'facing the right way' and looking forward to giving my body a break after a busy weekend. Seriously thinking of going back to 4:3 now in the run up to Christmas or I might end up with a hell of a lot of work to do in January if the last couple of weekends are anything to go by.

Happy fasting and feeding all and remember Life is long (ie there's always tomorrow Xmas Smile ho ho ho )

And welcome Jossysgiants I hope you achieve everything you're looking for

Thegirlinbrighton · 03/12/2012 08:43

BreadandWine, 75? Nah, spring chicken!

The study was the Vallejo study, there was quite a bit about it in the James Johnson book, which I just searched through for you. There's a summary online saying: To our knowledge there is only one study that was designed to test the effects of CR without malnutrition in non-obese humans [11]. This was a study of alternate day feeding in 120 men whereby the 60 participants in the CR group received an average of 1500 kcal per day for 3 years whereas the 60 others were ad libitum. This amounted to approximately 35% CR compared to the control group. While the initial report was brief, post-hoc analyses conducted several years later [12] indicated that death rate tended to be lowered in the CR group and hospital admissions were reduced in these individuals by approximately 50% (123 days for CR vs. 219 days for Control).

In Johnson's book (which is good on the science but personally I don't like as it recommends Slimfast style shakes for the first two weeks on IF which would have been an absolute no-no for me from the start), he said the best results were in heart disease and failure, with three times as many cases reported on the control group as in the ICR group. There was also a lower rate of lung disease, though cancer wasn't affected - but that may be because cancer could have been present in the subjects beforehand.

It wouldn't be ethically possible to do it as Vallejo did, I think, but apparently it wasn't noticed for years due to translation issues! I also wonder if it's something that might come quite naturally to many care home residents as I know losing appetite is something that can affect you as you're older - a day off eating much might then convert to the next day with increased appetite. Plus my parents' generation were used to going hungry some of the time, as war babies - though then again a fear of hunger might be even more ingrained in them from the times when they didn't have a choice.

BoraBora · 03/12/2012 08:44

Has anyone tried just doing one fast day? From what I've seen there's only anecdotal evidence for doing 2 days...

I really want to give this a bash, but I'm EBF and DD is only 5 weeks old, so I don't want to take any chances