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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

991 replies

GreenEggsAndNichts · 19/11/2012 12:57

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day. Wink

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

OP posts:
tiggy114 · 03/12/2012 09:16

I have skimmed through coz this thread moves quick but why are you giving part of the book for free? You wrote it and if people wanna buy it then all good for you. You deserve to recoeve a benefit for the work you put in as you gave your time and energy. Anyway not to deviate from the thread, fasy day today. I was looking forward to it. I've been planning for xmas as well
And am planning a fast day after boxing day to detox

TellMeLater · 03/12/2012 09:25

Fast day for me too, black coffee with a sprinkling of Truvia - can't go black solo just yet. Off for a run this morning and just as well given the amount of sugar I injected last night!
On the subject of books, I like a good book to tell me what to do, these threads are great but there's an awful lot of reading involved in them to get to the bare facts.
Had we not seen the Horizon programme - we'd want some scientific reassurance, we could all do with some guidance on how to fast -6:1, 5:2, 4:3 or 8 hr eating window for the most health benefits weight loss or otherwise. Whether to drip feed all day, 3 small meals or 1 big meal and what time of day and then what nutritional composition is optimal....and that's just for starters....you could trail through these threads for free but lots of people would rather not. I guess my biggest bugbear is people talk a lot of piffle when it comes to diet - scientific evidence is thin on the ground and people rely heavily on anecdotes and common sense masquerading as fact...they become so evangelical about the diet they follow that they can't stand back and assess it critically.

Laska42 · 03/12/2012 09:50

Soo.... Monday and I'm fasting , and after my weekend off (i.e Sunday, I feel like I really need to get my head into this today .. Bro you are right , its the routine i've got into and any deviation f8ks it up a bit for me in my head and all of a sudden I'm starting to think . 'Hey whoopee you've lost all this weight you can relax now' ..

You know, I usually count myself as a pretty rational person, but with 'diet' issues , it seems that I just cant be, and yes, last night I finished the rest of the red from the night before and then rationalised myself into opening another bottle 'for one glass more'.... I didn't need that one more glass, I didn't even really savour it so now why did it do that ? (and now I have another opened bottle in the house tempting me for tomorrow when I'm not fasting .. Duh!! I'm putting it in the fridge , it can go in a casserole for next weekend)

So before I find myself back to my old ways I'm here this morning giving myself a firm slap round the chops this morning....

'Tis the season to be jolly indeed Xmas Smileand all I can see in front of me is a month of celebratory get togethers .....BUT... 1.. I want to wear the sz 12 slinky dresses to them , and 2.. I DO NOT want to start 2013 half a stone heavier ..

So today ... nowt so far.. except tea , then Mr Ls roast carrot tomato and red pepper soup and prawn omelette.
black coffee .. green tea.. shiny halo....

Good luck fasters ..
We will Not be tubby turkeys or the fat fairies on the tree this year!!Xmas Grin

ceebeegeebies · 03/12/2012 10:29

Good luck to all those fasting today Smile

Am feeling pretty rotten today as I seem to have got cystitis over the weekend - I used to suffer regularly when I was younger but can't remember having it since a holiday in Crete about 10 years ago so it is a bit of a surprise! Hoping it is just coincidence that it has happened a few days into this WOE Hmm Anyway. felt like sh*t yesterday, am slightly better today and trying to stay off the comfort foods!

I think I am going to have to do 6:1 on the run up to Christmas as the fasts just aren't coming easily to me and I have too much on to make the effort that it requires to fast twice a week iyswim Sad

mollysfolly · 03/12/2012 11:01

Hi Laska just wanted to say thanks for Mr L's soup recipe - it's loverly and I'm looking forward to a large bowl of it at lunchtime.

I also find myself slapping around the chops firmly this morning as my weight has stalled for 4 weeks now, and the demon drink has to go! I only drink alcohol Friday- Sunday anyway but guess it's wasted calories (as opposed to wasted dieter Xmas Wink).

Congratulations to all the successful losers the last couple of weeks - I feel sure I'll be joining you again soon! Xmas Smile

Breadandwine · 03/12/2012 11:05

Thanks a bunch, Thegirlinbrighton, much appreciated! And very encouraging, indeed.

I take it the participants were middle-aged to elderly?

About your book, I agree with TML that to have all the evidence in one place would be very useful.

For those who are finding black coffee a problem, why not go straight through the coffee stage onto drinking water. When I began fasting for 22-24 hours at a time, I thought I needed a treat to look forward to through the day, so I always had good filter coffee on hand. But after several successful fasts, I realised I didn't need the coffee and now I drink water through the day - sometimes hot, sometimes cold. And the strange thing is, the water actually tastes sweet - so I really look forward to it! This from someone who previously thought water was only for washing!

And, of course, I'm saving money as well. Smile

TellMeLater · 03/12/2012 11:31

B&W why not go straight through to the stage of just drinking water? Because I like drinking coffee, I like drinking water too - I don't see the point of not drinking coffee - am I missing something?Smile

Laska42 · 03/12/2012 11:59

mollyfolly glad you like the soup , its a big favourite in this house fasting or non fasting.. On non fasting days its fab with a little crumbled feta on the top

TML I'm with you here.. real black coffee all the way for me .. I like water too and de drink lots of tap during the day but often have a glass of fizzy with a slice of lemon in the evenings.. its 'posher' somehow and makes me feel like I'm having a bit of a treat .. Gosh im sad!

Thegirlinbrighton · 03/12/2012 12:10

B&W it was in a 'geriatrica' home in Madrid but I can't find anything that specifies the ages of participants. Have been looking for the report itself as I do speak a bit of Spanish but can't find it online.

Just had a delicious chocolate and raspberry brownie. Naughty but so nice. Am planning to post pictures of what I eat on Fast and Feast Days on Twitter for a laugh but I suspect doing that is also going to make me think twice about what I eat. A good thing, probably. Might have to have the odd vegetable on my eating days...

Thelittlestranger · 03/12/2012 12:31

Fast day today....

Like you mollysfolly, I really need to give the booze a heave ho, but with the festive season upon us, I suspect that will hard to do!

I'm seriously contemplating adding another fast day on Fridays to take me up to Christmas, but finding it difficult to get my head round, and as I'm still (slowly) losing weight I'm struggling to make myself. I think I'll see how this week goes, and then make a decision on next week.

Beef stew for dinner tonight...

pookey · 03/12/2012 12:38

I keep meaning to ask if anyone has read the four hour body by Timothy Ferriss it involves him doing a lot of exerimenting on himself with regards to ways of eating and dieting and there is a look at fasting there but for living longer rather than weight loss. He believes in least effort for maximum results. It suggests doing the thing of taking photographs of meals before eating them as an effective weight loss tool but sounded like to much like hard work to me but def would be interesting to see the difference between fasting and feasting days thegirlinbrighton !

I think B&W suggested the coffee thing is for people who can't drink coffee without adding milk? I thought my day without coffee would be hell but replaced with yerba mate (4 hr body reccommends!) and was fine (haven't done it since though but will try at some point this week). Also on a similar note I have read that caffine stimulates blood sugar to rise - is that a diet book myth?

For the first time I have abandoned a fast today. Have had a dounut and 2 slices of toast. Thought I could start tomorrow but attending a bake sale so can't really not buy and eat cake? Might try a double fast wed thu.

pookey · 03/12/2012 12:56

thelittlestranger what about just skipping a meal on one extra day to start off with? I find full on 3:4 quite difficult especially if I have dine an extended fast say 20 hrs as part of one of the fasts. Always seems to end up as 2.5 fast days!

TalkinPeace2 · 03/12/2012 13:01

borabora
Dr Moseley is now doing 6:1 as he does not want to lose any more weight.
My yoga teacher is too. And once I've lost another three or four pounds I'll switch to it.
Still get the benefits of the fast, but not the significant weekly calorie deficit.

pookey
fasting two days running - unless you are used to skipping meals while running around like normal is pretty tough on your system.
And actually, attending a bake sale is NOT an excuse to overeat. Its a chance to make sure lots of other people buy the cakes if your body does not need them that day Wink

TellMeLater · 03/12/2012 13:38

I thought someone else posted further down that Dr Mosley had after a couple of weeks decided not to do 6:1 and he returned to 5:2.

Jossysgiants · 03/12/2012 13:41

Well first fast day going fine - I do have yesterday's Sunday roast to keep me going though. Have had no food yet, just 2 coffees with a splash of milk, 2 black coffees and loads of peppermint tea. Will keep going and eat all 500 calories this evening as I have insomnia and don't want hunger pangs keeping me awake.

Laska42 · 03/12/2012 14:01

TML yes I think you're right, I think it was because he wasn't convinced he would be still getting the health benefits ..

Like Cyclistist I'm feeling a bit concerned about the festive eating and drinking so have also decided to go back to 4:3 for this December period. But I am determined to have a mince pie or two this year as haven't allowed myself to have any for years as was on WW and those kind of diets pretty much frowns on that sort of thing...

So will fast again tomorrow , then Thursday .

Instead of prawn omelette I just had a smoked haddock and tomato omelette.. Really lovely.. and only 350 cal. I do do protein on fast days and also usually have two meals , the other is usually just a plate of veg... will be a mug of Mr Ls soup later (if I want it) or if not hungry later I wont..

Breadandwine · 03/12/2012 14:23

TML, as Pookey said, some posters are saying that they are finding coffee without milk a bit hard to take.

TGIB I've found the research you mentioned - or at least a report on it:

"In their paper these researchers discuss a 1957 paper from the Spanish medical literature.

?the subjects were eating, on alternate days, either 900 calories or 2300 calories, averaging 1600, and that body weight was maintained. Thus they consumed either 56% or 144% of daily caloric requirement. The subjects were in a residence for old people, and all were in perfect health and over 65. Over three years, there were 6 deaths among 60 study subjects and 13 deaths among 60 ad lib-fed controls, non-significant difference. Study subjects were in hospital 123 days, controls 219, highly significant difference. We believe widespread use of this pattern of eating could impact influenza epidemics and other communicable diseases by improving resistance to infection. In addition to the health effects, this pattern of eating has proven to be a good method of weight control, and we are continuing to study the process in conjunction with the NIH."

I came across it in this very interesting blog:

www.proteinpower.com/drmike/intermittent-fasting/fast-way-to-better-health/

Mind you, he does have a couple of books to sell! Grin

Still, I do like what he says about IF activating new brain cells!

mumofcrazynamedkids · 03/12/2012 15:39

I've been MIA for nearly a week again after a sick child and a weekend away, so it's taken me til now, since 9 am to read the last 10 pages, boy this thread moves fast! (and I'm at work, so reallyshouldn't be time wasting!)

to thecyclistist brilliant news on your 1 year anniversary and great losses and particularly on your brilliantly improved health markers from your blood tests!

I'm in 2 minds as to what i think about writing books about 5:2 .....I think like many of us, after watching the horizon programme I went on a mission to find out as much as I could, I followed Dr m on twitter initially and read all the q&a's from there and gleaned much, and overall I came to the conclusion (like many of us) that what I sought was hard data and facts and that just isn't available, and therefore I just needed to give it a go and work out what was best for me, i found this lovely thread and that, combined with the results I am seeing has been more than enough for me.

But some people, and I agree more so, for those who haven't seen the horizon programme, a book would be handy. But personally I would be more inclined to buy one from Dr M or one of the scientists on the programme, than an ebook, although I totally wish TGIB all the best in your sales, and I do hope you earn enough money to cover your time and effort.

I would be an amazing thing for more people to be doing this WOE and I would love to see some pamphlets about it at Dr's surgeries and leisure centres, offered as an alternative to boring depressing traditional diets.

as to menu plans I agree with greeneggs and find them distracting, in fact for me in the beginning I i'd look for suggestions for menu's and found some in peoples food blogs, I cooked some but still felt dissatisfied, a small piece of poached fish on a bed of spinach and a couple of cherry tomatoes with some cheese was just not filling enough for me, and I have discovered that the easy lazy way that works best for me is buying ready made soups with calories already counted becasue they really fill me up or sometimes having eggs in various forms with veggies.

I still stand by, everyone being different and needing to work out for themselves, but I know there is a market for more information, in a way by all being here we're all proving that.

anyway a fast day for me, I've had a whole carton of covent garden broccoli and stilton soup for lunch and some herbal teas and I have a chicken arrabiatta meal soup from sainsburys for dinner later...i am starting to find now that a whole carton of soup is too much, I think by next fast i will be reducing the quantity.

The other thing I'm starting to do is eat a largeish brunch and dinner on non fast days rather than 3 meals or more snacks a day. after years of alwasy eating breakfast as I thought that was good for my metabolism, i have gone back to my natural inclination not to eat first thing, eat a higher calorie brunch (I had a smoked salmon and cream cheese bagel on Friday) and then look forward to a decent 2 course dinner.

pookey · 03/12/2012 16:11

mumofcrazynamed hope your dc is better, really interesting about your eating pattern on non fast days, I really need to stop snacking.

TIP I know your right - could just donate and have a cuppa! It's a dilema, I want to go along contribute and be scoicable but dd has a prepaid toddler gym class so being sensible I should take her there and give bakesale a wide birth!

B&W I love the sound of alternating between 900 and 2300 cals, I guess that might be a maintenance plan?

TheCyclistist · 03/12/2012 16:37

Afternoon Laska. Talking of mince pies, Sainsbury's Taste The Difference 6 packs are amazing....in fact a little too good Xmas Wink

Laska42 · 03/12/2012 17:09

Yo bro sorry, I'm a total snob - make me own ( make me own mincemeat too.. have done for years -St Delia's recipeXmas Smile) but so looking forward to actually eating one now ..

GreenEggsAndNichts · 03/12/2012 17:31

Mincemeat seems like something which should be made in advance and left to sit for a while, is that right? I'm curious now. :)

I tried the ones at Fortnum and Mason and they were amazing. Which they should be for 10 quid a pack. Grin

OP posts:
TheCyclistist · 03/12/2012 17:36

Just remember Laska , there's always tomorrow...and then every alternate day till Christmas. Got to rush, off to Fortnum and Masons with a tenner in my pocket Xmas Grin

TellMeLater · 03/12/2012 17:47

First year I've made my own mincemeat - looking forward to making up a batch soon....have a panettone in the oven - the smell is torture!

Laska42 · 03/12/2012 18:45

St Delia's recipe for non-fast days Xmas Wink

I cant make a recipe without changing it ..so use butter instead of suet , (just like the taste better) and add halved glacé cherries and slivered almonds and also add a few generous glugs of something alcoholic..
port , brandy , rum .. lighter fuel ( oh no ..not lighter fuel Xmas Grin)

Its yum.. easy to do and I make it every year , but quite often use the previous years batch for this one.. (its never fermented on me )

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