5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

Breadandwine
Hi
Just wondering if we have posted enough questions for Dr Mosley? Thanks.

TP2 Not really understanding what you are getting at, it seems perfectly obvious that your fat cells are all formed at age 16 but it is the amount of fat they are holding and their size that changes. A marathon runner may have low levels of body fat but just less in each cell and it is the efficiency of their bodies that allows them to maximise the energy from it. 98% of the energy used in a marathon is aerobic and comes from their fat reserves and they may often put on weight in later life as they do not burn off as much because they exercise far, far less. All animals need fat for enegy.

Madhouse What you are proposing has been raised periodically before and differs from 5:2 in that say you were fasting on a Tuesday you would have dinner on Monday around six o'clock, 500cals on Tuesday and breakfast at 8 o'clock on Wednesday ie 500 cals in 38 hours. A day is 24 hours but 24 hours is not a day and what you are suggesting seems nothing more than varying your meal times. With the number of posts on here saying how simple this WOE is to follow and the reported successes why would you want to complicate it and to quote you "have lost 3lb and 1.5% body fat, woop woop!!"

"Breadandwine
Hi
Just wondering if we have posted enough questions for Dr Mosley? Thanks."

virginposter You're quite right - the thread hasn't been added to for a while.

I've just PM'd you a draft letter to the good doc.

Be interested to hear what you think.

In the meantime, if anyone else has a question they would like Dr M to respond to, here's the thread concerned.

"Doing my first 'spread over 2 days' fast day today, had lunch then plan on nothing else until lunch tomorrow, I'm going to see if I prefer it to doing a fasting day morning to morning with a 500 calorie meal. This is only my 4th fast day and I already feel better, have lost a little weight but my tummy feels flatter, so all good so far!"

Good stuff, madhouse!

Here's what Dr Matt P. Mattson (one of Dr Mosley's scientists) has to say on the subject:

1. A complete fast (no food) with hydration maintained with non-caloric beverages will be superior to consuming 600 calories on the fasting days.
2. Eating the 600 calories at one meal will be superior to eating several smaller meals spread throughout the day. By eating only one meal, the body goes essentially 24 hours with no food. This results in adaptive cellular stress responses which we believe is particularly good for the brain.
3. In the case of the 5:2 diet, we do not know whether better health benefits are realized with two consecutive days of fasting versus any two days of fasting during the week.

It would be much better if you could just get through a fast day without eating at all. Obviously, very few people are able to do that, so if you are going to eat a (600 for a man, 500 for a woman) calorie reduced meal, you are much better to consume that as one meal than to spread those calories throughout the day. This is because the stress that going for 24 hours without food places on your brain actually has produced identifiable positive brain responses such as the growth of new brain cells. It?s like a workout for the brain. How to add that into an intermittent fasting or alternate day plan?

Easy. Either, take a note of what time you last ate on the feed day prior to your fast and then do not consume your 600 calorie fast day allowance until 24 hours has past. So, if you ate at 6pm on a feed day, do not eat your 600 calories until 6pm on the fast day. That way, you?ve gone 24 hours without food AND you get to eat (albeit a restricted) dinner! If that doesn?t grab you, eat breakfast on a fast day and then don?t eat again until your breakfast the next day.

The beauty of this WOL is its flexibility, as well as its simplicity!

Hello everyone - been AWOL due to the glut of visitors, managed to fast inbetween but afraid it has utterly gone out the window. So - ADF til Christmas starting tomorrow (might have to juggle things periodically but in theory going to do either 4:3 or ADF) alongside getting back into exercise mode.

Will check back over the thread but interesting to see the questions for Dr N thread!

Have discovered some frozen pho soup in trader Joe's which is only 200cal so saving that for my dinner tomorrow - wish me lunch getting back on the wagon!

Good luck girl. Very interesting bread. I'm tried to do the one meal a day but the amount of medication I take has meant I've felt very nauseous so I will have to have a rethink. On the the plus side another 2lbs lost so that makes 31 in total. And lots of positive comments. Im seeing GP this morning for a review so it will be interesting to see what she makes of the new me!

am starting it today - wish me luck!!

Hello all, I'm joining in if you don't mind

I lost loads of weight low carbing a few years ago but since getting married and changing my lifestyle I've found it impossible to be as disciplined about carbs and it's all gone back on. I feel very low about this, and out of control, so I'm going to give this WOE a proper go, as I think it will fit better into my lifestyle

Wish me luck - today is my first fast day

Great going Aftereightsaremine. Tell us if your GP fell off his/her seat! Tell us also your rules for eating, the ones that worked, the stalls that you overcame, etc. You are an inspiration.

Madhouse My point is that fasting for 24 hours twice is not the same as 5:2 and will almost certainly mean that you will have more calories in total than if you were to do like the rest of us, including B&W "The beauty of this WOL is its flexibility, as well as its simplicity!" are certainly lost by what you are proposing as it would mean counting calories over 4 days. So say you were in conversation with your best friend how would the conversation go?
Madhouse "I am trying this new way pf eating, it's called the 5:2 diet"
Best friend "Why is it called 5:2?"
M "That's because you eat a normal diet for 5 days and then fast for 2"
BF "Oh, that sounds simple which days do you fast?"
M "Sunday and Monday, and Tuesday and Wednesday"
BF "But that's 4 days"

good luck theeoriginallady

me too, got a feeling am gonna be on this thread quite a lot to distract me from hunger pangs

manonboard Well I thought the whole point of the programme was to show how fasting can have health benefits? But the conclusion for Dr Mosley was the 5:2 suited him the best, and probably for most people interested in it?
If I'm counting a week as Saturday to Saturday, my first fast was Thurs, then it was Sun and Weds, now Sun/mon, I plan to do Weds or Thurs this week so I am only doing 2 days?
I am not counting calories over 4 days, I am eating a healthy balanced diet on those feasting days and if I want to have biscuits, cake whatever I am.
Look at what breadandwine posted above points 1,2 & 3, that's the idea I am on!
I last ate yesterday at 1.30pm and plan to have lunch today as normal and continue normally until a fast day weds or thurs. I'm not sure why you are critiscing me?

"madhouse" What I posted was certainly not intended to be a criticism of you and I hope whatever you do works. However, as I posted earlier, this has come up several times before and is different to what DrM did and differs from what the vast majority of us are doing and I believe complicates what is a very straightforward and easy to follow diet

The programme I saw showed the health benefits of fasting, Dr Mosely fasted for 3 days initially which lowered his blood levels drastically, The findings were a complete fast for 2/3 days every few weeks or even months would have health benefits. Dr Mosely couldn't manage that so explored other ways of fasting. The whole point of the 5:2 diet as the research found was that by only having 500 cals two days a week then eating normally for 5 would have similar effect. The 500 cals are supposed to be consumed in one meal, which would then give you upto 24 hrs fast.
Dr Mosely adjusted it to suit him over 2 meals, there's no research apart from his personal findings that that was ok, so surely it doesn't matter how you do it as long as you are careful and it works for you?
I just don't get your comments that I am being completely different to everyone else on here when I am not? I have done 4 days in 14 of having 500 cals, then tried it from 1pm to 1pm, whats so different about that?
What about the adf? Personally I think that's very extreme and not 5:2 at all, but that's everyone adjusting it to suit themselves?

Looking back at posts it seems the majority aren't doing 5:2, but trying adf, 4:3, 6:1. That's complicating the original 5:2 diet surely?

DrM fastted for 4 days and adf before settling on 5:2 on which he stuck to 600 cals a day. This meant that from dinner on the evening prior to fasting to breakfast the day after he had 600 cals in roughly 38 hours and a 1900 calorie reduction. With what you are proposing what would you expect the calorie deficit to be and over what period? What B&W posted mentions a complete fast for 24 hours then a 600 cal meal on the fast day.

Brad Pilon, the author of 'Eat, Stop, Eat' does exactly what Madhouse proposes - he has a meal at 2pm, followed by a 24 hour fast, then a >600 calorie meal. He's been doing this for years

I have to say, MOB I think you're worrying unnecessarily!

B&W You are quite right and I am just being pedantic but I still maintain, as I have said to you before, that a day is 24 hours but 24 hours is not necessarily a day

hi all just checking in for my /Sunday /Monday .. 24hr fast .. last ate 4pm yesterday .. and feeling GOOD!

Only black coffee so far , I've come to the conclusion ( this being my 3rd 24hr total fast, that its just about not thinking food at all until a certain time..)

I may try and lengthen this one ,and see how long I can go ..wonder if I could make it until tomorrow breakfast ?

Will read the thread later..

B&W . possibly being a pessimist here , but i'm wondering if DR M is reallyt hat interested in answering questions he doesn't set himself up as an expert and hasn't invited any questions recently ... the woman writing the blog didn't get an answer from him and and he has seemed to have stopped talking about 5:2 on twitter.. . might it be better to try one of the scientists instead?
just a thought ..

Mob. re Brad Pilon thats what ive been doing too .. last meal ( mine was a plate of veggies) then.. 24hrs with nothing eat 500 cals . then 16 hrs ..

hi all, sorry for being MIA, huge amounts of work on next years budgets for the past 2 weeks, have been working my days off, evenings and final day was working saturday 11-7, but now they are finished, and I can re-surface!

so we are onto a new thread, I will try and catch up with all the posts over the coming week, but just wanted to pop in and say hello.

I only managed one fast last week, the first time that has happened, i'm back on track today, (usual 5:2 for me) would really like to lose a couple more pounds before christmas.

I wanted to say to manonboard that i can see you feel very strongly about people doing it the 'proper' way that Dr moseley did, but I agree with madhouse and although for me personally I agree that the simplicity and the easiness of just 2 days of 500 cals, and 5 days of whatever as it really works "for me", I also think that everyone should be able to try and work out what fits best for them, and it would be more pleasant if we all listened a bit more and waited to see how peoples experiences go rather than advising too much against other peoples choices. i think expressing an opinion is good, but to tell people they are wrong for their choices is not.

Maybe that wasn';t your intention, it's just the impression I got from reading a few recent posts. I enjoy reading your posts and thoughts about this WOE, but there are many different people with different reasons for choosing this WOE.

breadandwine i'm interested to see there is a thread with questions for Dr Moseley, I'll be sure to take a look.

Do I have to be totally food/drink free for 16 hours on fast day? So go to bed at 10pm....wake up at 7 ... Then eat/drink at midday? And should I have all my 500 cals in one sitting after 12... Or could I have 200 at 12 then 300 at 6pm?

Thanks

hi raven I honestly think you need to work out what works for you best, but the scientific evidence so far seems to support a 16 hour total fast for being most beneficial to the health benefits, in terms of the weight loss I'm not sure anyone knows that for certain.

i started off splitting the cals into 3 small snacks, then quickly moved to 2 meals, i keep meaning to do just one large meal, but as I have 2 small chidlren to look after and need to stay tolerant I find that the 2 meals works bes for me.

some people just can't do without breakfast, others prefer to eat one large meal, and you may find you want to do different things on different days, it really is fairly flexible.

the only thing most of us find is that it seems easier to delay eating as long as possible.

good luck, let us know how you're getting on.

aftereights your weight loss is great, you must be feeling really good?

I'm also looking forward to hearing what the dr says.

Laska I agree with you about the letter to Saint Michael Mosley (as I like to think of him) - he's just someone like us who has discovered a way of eating that has numerous benefits and WORKS!! (It would be interesting to know if there is to be a follow-up programme though.) I think a letter to Dr Krista Varady or one of the other scientists would be better for answers to the technical questions.

MOB the '24-hour' fast idea is something I'm planning on trying when the happy day arrives that I'm trying to maintain, rather than going onto 6:1. I agree that this should be the simplest WOE ever, but also that we should do it the way that works for us.