5:2 Diet Thread! 7 is our lucky number...

[GreenEggsAndNichts]

The continuing thread for those of us following either the 5:2 diet or the alternate-day fasting diet. Both are two versions of Intermittent Fasting, which you can read more about here.

The 5:2 diet was featured on Horizon in August 2012, and essentially requires you to fast for 2 non-consecutive days per week. The other 5 days, you can eat what you like. Alternate-day fasting is just how it sounds; you fast every other day. By "fasting", we mean that we keep our calorie consumption very low, around 500 calories on average, on those days.

I know a number of people lurk on this thread, as this is currently quite popular. Please just jump in and post if you're new- we won't bite. Well, maybe on a fast day.

Here is a list of links to get you started with this way of eating. Please let us know if you find a new article or some other information online:

First things first, here are links to some of our previous threads: most recent one before that another one etc!

Another thread which breadandwine has started is a good resource for some of the links and tips that get lost in these big threads. In addition to sharing links, we try to condense some of our top tips for fasting there. Keep in mind, we all do this differently, so these are just tips, not rules.

frenchfancy has a recipe thread over here, please post any low-calorie recipes there so they don't get lost in these bigger threads!

Here is the link to the BBC article regarding Michael Mosley's findings, which was featured on Horizon.

Here is where I would link to the aforementioned Horizon programme, but it appears as if the BBC have finally noticed it on YouTube and have taken it down. If you have another link for this episode, please PM me with it, or post it to the thread and we'll put it up for the next thread.

A blog post here gives some of the scientific explanation for why this way of eating helps you to not only lose weight, but improve your all-around health.

A Telegraph article which comments on the diet and gives a brief overview.

A study discussed here gives commentary specifically addressing the effect of this diet on obese people (both men and women), with regard to both health and weight loss. ("After 8 weeks of treatment, participants had an average 12.5 lbs reduction in body weight and a 4 cm decrease in waist circumference. Total fat mass declined by about 12 lbs while lean body mass remained relatively constant.) it also mentions "Plasma adiponectin, a protein hormone that is elevated in obesity and associated with heart disease, dropped by 30%. As did LDL cholesterol (25%) and triglycerides (32%).")

Important link if you are currently your ideal BMI: this appears to suggest the benefits for women at a lower BMI might not be seeing the same health benefits that are found on men at their ideal BMI.

And for those already fasting, here is a link to 100 snacks under 100 calories. We tend to favour lots of hot drinks during the day (count your milk if you use it!)

Another food link, here is a link to the BBC Good Food site, with a list of low-calorie soups.

We mentioned BMR and TDEE often. Total Daily Energy Expenditure (TDEE) quantifies the number of calories you burn in a day. This measure is best estimated by scaling your Basal Metabolic Rate to your level of activity. TDEE is critical in tailoring your nutrition plan to desired fitness goals. Here is a link to a calculator to help you figure out how many calories you should be eating in a day.

A BIG THANK YOU to all who have been contributing, btw. Most of us are learning this way of eating as we go along. All of the links above have been posted by others in our previous threads, and they've been very helpful. Sorry if I haven't given credit where it's due, but it was just enough of a job getting all the links re-copied and back into one post.

Come join us, and tell us about your experiences with this diet!

It's weird because I think I have been doing this WOE naturally for many years. I am about a stone overweight, but not in an unhealthy way, just that I would like to shift a bit of excess blubber. However I have always felt bad if I skip breakfast etc.

My DP is a massive fry up fan, so at the weekend he can roll out of bed at 10 and sit down to the full works at 10.30. Over the years I have just fallen into the same habit. But every time I do it, I am thinking "I am not hungry for this food why am I going to eat it?" but because its there, I just eat it. So that is the first habit to stop. I would prefer to have my fry up for a late lunch or tea, when I have actually built up a hunger.

I have often had days where I have not had breakfast then gone to the sandwich shop at midday and looked at what's on offer and just thought "meh, don't fancy that". However, I do get a bit ratty at school pick up......

So my plan is to do 5:2, keep some handy sachets of miso soup at work, drink loads of hot water and see if I can shift the stone.

P.S. what is frozen pho?

Just trying to drop back into the chit chat . I havent posted for over a week since i managed to put on 3/12 pounds over night. As an update the folowing week i did 6.1 and continued to excersise and on my weigh day i had lost the 3/12 i had sort of gained and another pound off too so although im not exactly sure what i weighed to start with i have now lost at least 1 1/2 stone since early September. Last week i only did 5.2 as im struggling to get that third fast in at the minute but im happy as long as i manage the two. I have now got shin splints in both legs and it bloody hurts , even keeps me awake at night . I will have to stop running for a while but will see how i get on with the cross trainer to keep my cardio up. Im fasting today and am not working so im going straight back out now to keep busy until i can eat this evening. Good luck to everyone and congratulations to thos who are doing so well.

This morning I read an interesting paper on:
The effects of intermittent or continuous energy restriction on weight loss and metabolic disease risk markers: a randomized trial in young women.

Brief summary:
Subjects doing caloric restriction (CR) diets and subjects doing 5:2 IF regimes over a 6 mth period had equally effective results for:
Weight loss
Reductions in leptin, free androgen index, high sensitivity C-reactive protein, total and LDL cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure and increases in sex hormone binding globulin, IGF binding proteins 1 and 2.
Both groups experienced modest declines in fasting serum insulin and improvements in insulin sensitivity which were greater amongst the IF group.

The regimes:
The CR folks were on a diet where they were prescribed a daily 25% restriction based on a Mediterranean type diet (30% fat, 15% monounsaturated, 7% saturated fat, 7% polyunsaturated fatty acids, 45% low glycaemic load carbohydrate, and 25% protein).

The 5:2ers were asked to undertake a Very Low Calorie Diet (VLCD) (75% restriction) on 2 consecutive days and to consume estimated requirements for weight maintenance for the remaining 5 days according to the nutrient composition above. The VLCD provided 2060 to 2266 kJ (500kcal ish) of energy and 50 g protein/day and comprised 1.136 litres (2 pints) of semi skimmed milk, 4 portions of vegetables (~80 g/portion), 1 portion of fruit, a salty low calorie drink and a multivitamin and mineral supplement.

Fewer of the IF group (58%) planned to continue with the regimen beyond 6 months compared to the CR group (85%) suggesting difficulties with long term adherence to IF.

I suggest you read the paper in full before coming to any conclusions with what I?ve posted above.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3017674/

A "fasting day" is a 24 hour period during which women consume no more than 500 calories and men no more than 600.
The start and end points of that 24 hours depend on your routine.
But be it 3pm to 3pm its the limit on the calories in that time.

Not eating for as long a section of that 24 hours is beneficial (sleeping helps)
so if possible have just one meal in that 24 hour period
eg if doing 7pm to 7pm
starting after supper, try not to eat again till 500 calorie supper the next day at 6.30
but - drink plenty of water (as your food provides over a litre a day normally)

Put on two pounds over the weekend, but so long as I lose three pounds during the week, all is well.

After my 2nd fast day this week (since Friday) I'm seriously considering adf. I've woken up today with absolutely no appetite at all! Is this normal?

I've had 2 cups of tea and 1 slice of toast. Can't even contemplate having lunch. I'm a very big girl and this is just strange! I keep reading that it gets easier and easier too.

This woe is perfect for me as I'm very good at having initial willpower it just never lasts very long! It's much easier being a bit hungry and thinking oh I can have that tomorrow if I want. Seems I don't want very much on feed days tho... It's all a bit odd!

skippy
That paper is excellent. A straight comparison on IF / normal calorie restriction in women for six months.
IF is no better or no worse that things like WW and SW, but its free AND because you can stop and start, I wonder if long term , less will 'fall off the wagon.l

A supposed fast day here, but for the first time since september I couldn't do it this morning. I had food poisoning over the weekend so ate very little yesterday, I felt so sick this morning I just had to eat otherwise I wouldn't have been able to work.

I feel much better now so I'm continuing the day as though it was a fast (mostly to support DH) but I think I'll be at about 750 cals by the end.

I guess yesterday was less than 750 cals as well so I suppose it is all the same in the end.

That paper is really interesting.

I think my view is - it's not the diet that matters, it's that it becomes a way of life. It's good that IF doesn't seem to cause any harm, and if, like me, you find living in a WW or SW way of life non-sustainable it's great that we have IF as a way of eating.

Hello all

May I join in please?

A friend of mine told me about this diet last week - she's finding it really easy to just have 2 500 cal days pw and has lost lots of weight.

I'm about 11 stone and would like to get down to 10st 3 as soon as it happens and then take stock (I would ideally like to be 9st 12 but I'm giving myself an interim goal).

Today is day one and so far so good. Here's the plan:

First thing:
Cup of tea: 15 cals

Mid-morning:
Small apple and diet coke: 70 cals

Lunch:
Tub of New York Chunky Chicken minestrone Skinny Soup: 180 cals
Cup of coffee: 25 cals

Supper:
220g raw weight cod loin with broccoli and curly Kale and soy sauce 180 cals
Cup of coffee: 25 cals

TOTAL: 495 calories

Clearly it's only day one for me but i do feel quite optimistic about being able to stick to this... It's ONLY two days a week and I can change them around to suit what I am doing.

Hi there 52to103 and welcome to the gang.
Looking at your plan my main comment would be - drop the mid morning snack. You don't need it and Diet Coke is a particular bugbear of mine - have the extra calories as more veg with supper.

Hello all!! I'm a newbie... Tried to fast last Friday but failed miserably.
Fasting today so far so good. I had my calories for lunch and from now on, it is nothing else (I'm never too hungry in the evening)... Lets see how it goes!

Hi, I've only posted occasionally but have been following this WOE for the past month, I think I've lost about 4 pounds. skippy, I wonder if the compliance issue with this study is linked to their age? Young women more likely to have an active social life which makes fasting tricky? Just a thought. Personally, the idea of restricting calories everyday would depress me! But each to their own ...

If i can throw one question out to the female 5/2-ers - how have people found fasting just before and during period? I am coming round to that time of the month, and so far today I am OK, but yesterday (feast) i gave in to my urges for pino noir and caramel chocs.

Today, so far one apple juice (which i needed with a nurofen - did I mention the pino noir?), a tea and 2 coffees with minimal milk. I have an M & S fuller for longer meal (380 cals) which I'll probaby eat about six. Nearly 24 hours without solid food ...

Hello all :) Checking in after a big eating weekend (Thanksgiving!) For those wondering how Christmas will be, I'll tell you: miserable. I felt very full and quite uncomfortable for hours after our meal, and no, I didn't eat a shocking amount. I didn't even get our big plates out! I suspect it was all the stuffing..

Anyway. I've been MIA a week or so because I was feeling a bit sorry for myself. I caught a glimpse of my naked self in the mirror at the hotel I was staying in last weekend, and I don't know, the sight just really depressed me. :( I haven't let it get me off-track or anything; I'm still plugging away with my fast days. It's just hit me that despite my 17 lb loss or so (I've not weighed myself this week yet, will not be surprised if I've not lost after the holiday, though!) I've just got so much more to do.

And, of course, the fact that I've had a child and all that, even when I do finish losing or get to a happy place, I'm just going to look as good as I'd like. I admit, I'm still wallowing a bit.

Sorry. It's not put me off! I'm sticking with it and will actually be stepping up efforts this week at least. No doubt the dark days aren't helping me much.

Today is going as every fast day does: lots of coffee, later will be a veg-heavy meal of some sort. I'll check out the lettuce in the fridge, if it needs eating then it'll be salad, otherwise it'll be soup. Or, a bit of both. :)

(((Greeneggs)))
I've finally got my figure back to where I want it. DS is 12 :-) You are way ahead of me on that stakes!

And actually Christmas will be GREAT. It will just be different. Plan your meals so that there is one good one each day, one small highly flavoured one and if needs be another little, luxurious one
eg
Christmas day
breakfast : single egg benedict (yup, with hollandaise) - no booze
lunch : smoked salmon, smoked duck and salad - small glass of fizzy
supper : goose or rib of beef and all the trimmings - red wine
Boxing day
breakfast : single BLT English Muffin - no booze
lunch : soup (leftover veg used up!) - no booze
supper : gammon / ham and jacket potatoes and veg - cider or beer

with a teeny bit of portion control, what feels like eating like a king, but with minimal leftovers and not too many calories as the portions are smaller.

greeneggs quite a few people who have lost weight say they don't look any different naked, I know I didn't yet I'd gone from a size 14 to a size 10. Do you feel you look better in clothes since losing weight.....feeling like you look good naked takes a lot longer despite what Gok says!

I'm also feeling a bit sorry for myself - but in a good way!

I've been asked to make some Healthy fruit and oat bars with a year 4 group at the local primary school where I have a weekly Family Learning breadmaking session.

So I've had to convert them into cup/mug measurements and bake a batch, just so I know what I'm doing.

So now the flat bread(?) biscuit(?) is cooling and the kitchen smells gorgeous. However, I'm currently 20.5 hours into a fast - aiming for a >600 calorie dinner at 7 tonight - so I won't be able to sample said healthy bars until after that.

I'm also cooling 500g (dried weight) of kidney beans, cooked and drained, waiting to go in the freezer. I generally love to munch on these while they're hanging about the kitchen.

I'm back to drinking coffee on my fast days, after proving I can do them just drinking water, last week. I'm alternating black coffee and hot water - and feeling smug about the savings! [smuggitsmiley]

Drinking coffee without sugar, as I do seems to make the water taste surprisingly sweet. Anyone else notice this?

I'm still very surprised about the level of control I have when I'm fasting! Unlike over the weekend when I was eating loads of spiced almond biscuits (vegan, from Lidl - thoroughly recommended) with a piece of chocolate covered marzipan with every bite!

These Monday fast days play havoc with my leftover routine. We've always got loads of leftovers from the Sunday roast (vegan meat pie, in my case) and Mondays was always bubble and squeak day. However, it'll all last until tomorrow and I'll tidy up the fridge then.

Sorry you're feeling down, GreenEggs - won't last you know! You'll soon be back to your annoying cheerful self - chivying us all along, as usual!

GreenEggs

I agree with the others, you are such an inspiration, please don't let a mirror get you down. Last week I had to go into a cubicle to get undressed for an examination and happened to glance at the mirror. Horror of horrors I looked fat and my skin looked lumpy and bumpy but when I returned home and looked into my mirror I didn't look at all bad? Sometimes mirrors are bad!

Another loss of 2lbs this week with a total of 21lbs. Still doing 4:3 which is as easy as 5:2 - I love it.
Good luck to all newbies. We all started where you are now and thanks to this forum we have achieved so much. Thanks again to all who contribute.

Afternoon everyone

Green sorry you are feeling down but I think everyone has those kind of days/moments every now and again - concentrate on what you have achieved so far and be very proud of yourself

Well, have been 'feasting' for 3 days now (am going to have my 2nd fast day tomorrow) and it is the strangest thing. I am not particularly hungry, or if I am, I seem to be able to cope with it better so I am not snacking as much - the most thing about this is that I literally could not leave the house without having a bagful of food/snacks and always needed to know when and what I would be eating next.

Have been to Asda to stock up on tubs of soup and carrot sticks for my fasting days this week

Breadandwine were you previously known on the BBC Food boards as PaultheBread?

greeneggs sorry to hear you are feeling low, but if you think back to where you were in July - did you think then, before hearing about IF that you would have lost what you have by now without doing a daily diet and exercise regime?
you are on a plan for life, one that is sustainable and that has already given you great results, i bet if you ask your OH what he thinks of your naked body now, compared to before, he would say differently to you?

It is so easy to focus on the negative (me included) but if we were a bit kinder to ourselves and less critical (like we often are to others) I'm sure we'd be a lot happier.

You are a busy mum, doing a great job,we are all so grateful for what you do here, and I bet there are many more people besides who appreciate you. i'm sure you'll be back to feeling great about yourself really soon.

I do agree there is a certain acceptance that has to come for all of us about the affect of ageing on our bodies, but there are so many positives about where we have got to that goes with that ageing, I'd love to have my 16 year old body back, but with the wiseness of my 40 years, but both ages have their pro's and cons, I definitely wouldn't want to be back in teenage angst, maybe they need the good bodies just to counterbalance the internal turmoil!

This WOE is good because you can allow yourself thanksgiving/Christmas/Celebrations, and so what if we gain some weight back? it's not permanent, we know how to fix it and most of us are in a better place than 6 months ago, and have a working plan for going forwards.

Don't be down hearted green! 17lbs is fab I hardly ever look in a mirror with my glasses on.

skippy that study was I think to do with the genesis diet which I tried before I saw the horizon programme. I thought it was awful very hard to do whereas this is a breeze.

Thanks to those who have wished me well & GP was very happy with me but reminded me I still have a long way to go!

For those of you who asked this is my routine:

Fast Monday Wednesday & Fridays nothing to eat for at least 16hrs from the night before.

Tuesday & Thursday have 3 proper meals & no picking in between & no alcohol.

Saturday & Sunday do what I like including alcohol if I like.

Everyday fast day I include 1 small piece of good quality dark chocolate. It helps keep me sane.

That's me, TML. I post on several forums as B&W, but there's still a couple where I'm PTB - I keep meaning to change them to B&W, but inertia keeps getting in the way!

Have we met before, then?