DS resisting trumpet practice

[MumwithAspieTraits]

DS is in Year 10 and his teacher is working towards Grade 8. He got a distinction in Grade 6 in late 2020.

His practice has fallen off a lot and I feel partially responsible as he says he is too tired and I say "Aww poor you". I worry that he has pulled the wool over my eyes. Neither of us is musical so it is hard to know the right amount.

DS can be very lippy and has an answer for everything. He says it is too much hard work. He gave me a lot of opinion about how rock music is better than classical music. After a few honest chats with his teacher he is aware he might lose his place as 1st trumpet in the school's premier ensemble. Last year he was in the school pit band playing the West End score for a famous musical so he has let things slide a lot. He used to be the school's star trumpet player.

We are encouraging him to practice at home again - 20 mins to start with then building his stamina up. We put Classic FM on in the car in the school run. What he listens to the rest of the time is up to him.

DS's teacher feels he has the talent to get into a music conservatoire. The first step would be an audition for junior college but we have been advised this is not on the cards for at least a year - even a visit to an open day to look around is fraught with him being "found out" as he would be asked to join in with rehearsals.

Is this normal behaviour for a 15 year old? Will he become more motivated again? Do we continue to motivate him and he will thank us for it later? Anyone else been through this and out the other side?

Maybe he just doesn't want to play any more. Would that be so bad? Time for a chat, lay it on the line. He practises or you stop paying for lessons and it's over. Maybe he would like to learn guitar or something for a change. Something where there isn't the pressure on him to excel at a thing he has no passion for.

I think at 15 they are starting to find the real them and the more, as a parent especially, you try to push them they are more likely to rebel and completely go the other way. Gentle encouragement and non parent chats often help. I know you really want him to reach is full potential in the trumpet and not have regrets later in life but if he did give it up would it be the end of the world? Could he play music on the trumpet more inline with his tastes in music (Nothing wrong with classical music but if its not your thing which at 15 it probably isn't having it pushed on you in the car etc is not the way to get you to enjoy it.

What's the point if he doesn't enjoy it?

Not trying to be arsey at all, I just don't see much intrinsic value in it if he doesn't love it enough to do the practice anyway. He might have the talent to get into a conservatoire, but if he doesn't have any passion for it, wouldn't he be better off doing something else instead?

Does he want to go to a conservatoire? That seems a big step for someone who isn’t really practicing.

my angle on this is that my parents really pushed me on my instrument, even when it bored the socks off me.

I suspect I would have been a good social player had they let me dial it down, and enjoyed it into adult hood.

As it is, I stopped completely as soon as I could, and slightly shudder at the thought of it.

At that age I was my school's star cornet player, I achieved grade 8. I was in brass bands out of school. My DM insisted. Every weekend was a concert,
and then twice weekly practice, even through GCSEs, summer holidays, christmas, A Levels. My friends went to parties and gatherings when I was stuck going to rehearsals I didnt want to go to. We had brass band music on in the car. When I turned 18 I went to university and dropped it. Never picked it up since. I resent how pushy my mum was, it made me never want to play the cornet again.

Listen to your son. Is there music he would be interested in playing? Sounds like he likes rock music, can you help him find some sheet music for that if he is interested in doing so. This is his talent to do with as he wishes.

Ha snap @DCINightingale . We need a survivors of pushy parents support group.

Yes, I was thinking along those lines for a long while which was why I let him lay off the practice for so long. I was thinking, why push him if it going to lead to arguments and unhappiness?

But I have this nagging guilty feeling, when at 25 he says to me "Why did you listen to me? Why didn't you push me to practice? I hate my job as a physicist / computer scientist".

Regarding the classical music, he has hardly heard any, as we are all rock and indie music lovers in our house. So he has had no exposure - if he has never heard any, how does he know he hates it? He has begun chatting about what is going on in the music, the progressions and keys etc.

He really loves music. He is constantly composing and arranging and transposing pieces on the piano and playing his favourite songs by ear. I am afraid of all that talent going to waste....

Opinions please....

What does he want to do long term? conservatoire isn’t for everyone and Is a huge commitment. He’s only year 10, I’m not familiar with the trumpet syllabus but I assume being a minority instrument it doesn’t change very often, so I’d be inclined to let him play more contemporary repertoire for a bit that gets him loving his instrument again. Then maybe pick the grade 8 up again after Christmas with a view to doing it in the autumn of year 12 where it has the least impact on any public exams. It is worth encouraging him to get the grade 8, it also gives him other income opportunities later in life for teaching, or band ensembles for weddings etc. all of which pay quite well. But On the other hand if he decides it is the end of the road for now, he’s reached a point he will be able to pick it up in the future and enjoy it for the music without any pressures.

If he decides to follow another non musical route at university it’s worth looking as a few universities offer a non music major scholarship to encourage people into the uni orchestras etc.

Pick your battles Op . I doubt he'll blame you in the future for not pushing him and if he is talented he can always start playing again.

So he’s doing lots of music, just not the stiff

It’s strange when at school getting into music college or conservatoire seems so amazing and a great goal, but tbh it’s really not a great career option. Having had loads of friends go that route I certainly won’t be encouraging any of my kids to do it unless they absolutely had their heart set on it, even then I’d encourage them to consider all their options, as you can earn well as a musician without having gone to music college.

The trumpet’s great as you can play so many different genres of music. Maybe classical isn’t for him? The best thing he can do is keep playing for pleasure.

Gah typed too soon. It sounds like he’s doing tonnes of music eg on the piano, just not the stuff he did when he was younger. That’s fine!

could you point him to opportunities to capitalise on what he does enjoy?

If he was 7 I’d say there’s an argument for getting him to continue. But he’s old enough to enjoy what he wants - if he does blame you in 10 years time he’s be unfair and unusual.

IME he will only practice if he is passionate about it. All my DC had basic lessons. The youngest was really the only one who kept up with it, entirely self motivated. Dropped GCSE music because the teaching was so dire, but is now a professional musician. I think that if you have to nag and fall out over it, it probably isn't worth it. There needs to be joy in it.

For the sake of contrast, OP, my dsis, her husband and their son are all very musical. Loved their respective instruments and never needed any pushing. My DNephew practises for several hours per day through choice. That's what passion looks like.

I think you should have an honest conversation with your ds. Tell him how talented you think he is and how you're anxious about that talent going to waste, but emphasise that you also want to respect his wishes and let him make his own choices. Ask him what he wants to do. Tell him that you're afraid of him looking back in years to come and wishing that you'd pushed him harder. Explain that you don't want to force him but you don't want him to have any regrets later. And then put the ball firmly in his court. Let him take responsibility for the decision on how he is going to move forwards. He is 15, and will be an adult in less than 3 years! It's time for him to make his own choices!

He sounds talented, let him explore it as he enjoys to and support him. Composing, transposing etc are all great skills that, if he has passion for, will develop just by him doing. If he has been heading for grade 8 he must have done his theory grades to 5 at least (or that is how it was 20 years ago!) So he will have great all round knowledge. You may find with pressure totally removed he will find his own path which may include the trumpet or not. Classical music appears causally in so many things - tv shows, adverts, different bands like Muse, if something really speaks to him he will find out what it is.

He might have the aptitude to be a future Wynton Marsalis, but it involves so much application as well. That application comes from love usually and it doesn't sound as if he's feeling it. Perhaps the talk about conservatoire has spooked him, thinking he may have to make sacrifices and decisions he doesn't feel ready to, which at 15 is understandable.

My daughter plays the trumpet, has never done an exam because she plays for fun. I don’t make her practice because she needs to take responsibility for herself.
If your son did turn around in 10 years to blame you for him choosing to give up or scale back his trumpet playing then I’d be pointing out that your parental responsibilities lay in giving him the opportunity, the execution was down to him. He’s in year 10, he needs to learn rapidly that his success or failure is for him to control. He will be sitting his GCSE’s next year and you cannot make him revise in the same way you cannot make him practice the trumpet.
If he knows the consequences of not practicing and chooses to accept those then there is little you can do without making home a battleground.

Does he play with any groups outside of school? He might find something like a non-school brass band more to his taste.

And don’t subject him to Classic FM 😂 I find that dull and I love most classical music…

I think the only time he could feel a bit resentful in the future is if you'd never given him the opportunity to carry on. But you've sent him to lessons, he has an instrument, he has access to being in orchestras and groups. If he wants to stop all that then that's his choice and I think he's old enough to make it himself.

The only thing I'm slightly miffed about regarding my childhood is that apparently my older brother was offered the chance by my parents to go to a top private school for his A Levels rather than the neighbourhood 6th form college after finishing comp. He turned it down with an 'oh God no, I want to go with my mates.' So 2 years later my mum didn't bother offering me. But I didn't want to go to the big college and would have much preferred a smaller school environment (the comp didn't have a 6th form) but I was never presented with that opportunity which does slightly annoy me. But had I been asked and turned it down it would be totally on me if years later I felt I should have gone.

Whatever you say to him, I would impress on him that until he is 100% sure that he no longer wants to pursue the trumpet/conservatoire option, he needs to continue practising. If not, he will seal his own fate by being weeded out. It's much better to be in the running and decide against something than to find that your indecision has shut the door for you.

At that age they have to want play otherwise it's a waste of time. Just because his teacher thinks he's good enough to get into a Conservatoire, his actions in not practising show he's not that interested. Music has to be so important to you , you can't do without out it, otherwise you'd hate that environment. Maybe he needs to find another style eg jazz or brass band ( need to move to cornet for that). You've given him lots of opportunities. There are community music degree courses you can do which might use more of his other skills. He's unlikely to pass grade 8 on 20 minutes practice a day unless he is seriously talented. Maybe the pressure of being principal trumpet is getting too much and he could swap with another ayer for a bit.
My eldest is the most inately musical but the middle works hardest and is the one at a junior Conservatoire. You don't want him to lose the joy of music, there are lots of adult amateur groups, he will always be able to find somewhere. I don't think you should be pushing him at that age, you need to chat about the options. Good luck!

Has he been entered for the Grade 8? If so, I think you'd be right to point out to him that he wanted to be entered for it, that you've had significant financial outlay in putting him in for the exam, and that means he has to knuckle down and practice regularly otherwise he is wasting everyone's time and money.

Other than that, the motivation has got to come from them at that age really (parent of a Y10 musician who could take it more seriously but doesn't).

i'm an (amateur) musician from a (professional) musical family.

Honestly doing grade 8 and trying to get into a conservatoire requires a lot of self determination. I don't think I know anyone who has done either without very high levels of self motivation as well as bags of talent.
(I did two grade 8s myself and it was extremely hard work, at least an hour most nights for months)

It looks like he gets some enjoyment from music but doesn't want to go down the music college route. That's fine. Many many successful professional musicians don't have anywhere near grade 8 experience nor did they go to a music college. It may be that he is better suited to pursuing something entirely different but keeping his hobby on the sidelines. I think a serious chat might be in order though as he may not have seriously thought about alternative plans yet.

Btw if he goes to a good uni there will be plenty of opportunities to get involved with music. Yuo don't have to study music to be in the uni orchestra for example and there will lot sof different kinds of ensembles he can get involved in, whatever he ends up studying.

There is no point in him being pushed into going to a conservatoire unless he has at some point talked about ambitions to be a professional classical musician. That doesn't seem to be the case.

No matter how talented somebody is at something, the ambition, dedication, determination and ruthless will to succeed has to come from within. If that's not there, then there is no point pursuing it. His achievements to date will not go to waste simply because he doesn't continue this particular instrument.

Talk to him. Tell him that you are worried that in years to come he might blame you for not pushing him to carry on. Find out how he really feels. Above all, let him decide.

Anyway - maybe he could switch to sax - there's a lot of that in rock and pop, and the sax is the coolest intrument in the band.

ps def don't subject him to classic fm in the car .Classic fm plays in the main a really narrow range of music. If he likes indie and rock then just go with that.