Poolside Chat: parents of competitive swimmers

[2ducksandI]

Seems I managed to fill the other thread with talk of taking fridges to away galas! And I didnt even mean a fridge I meant an electric cool box So I've started another thread. Hope you all find it.

If they do that as they are rotating and turn immediately, then they are imitating the turn and going over so one "kick" there would be part of the turn. It's like when they stick their head up before turning to - very odd and adds time so no advantage.
I've had a few where there had been 3-4 frontcrawl kicks before turning and that certainly isn't right

Yes, but this boy wasn’t, he definitely butterfly kicked while swimming on his front and not moving his arm. I wonder if I didn’t articulate it well at the time.

I then thought one wasn’t a dq at the weekend and the stroke judge thought differently. The only difference was that it was less tidy than the previous. It was a club gala so I’ll ask him.

But one of the difficulties is as a very humble J1 different people tell you different things all the time. I don’t pretend to be amazing at it, but do want to get it right.

I've had a few where there had been 3-4 frontcrawl kicks before turning and that certainly isn't right

agreed 😂

or a couple of strokes with the arms to accompany….

It is all about the articulation to the referee. I've also been asked by the referee to clarify exactly what I've seen too so ultimately it is the ref's decision. Stroke judge shouldn't be overruling a turn judge either as the angles a very different. I'm a stroke judge and what I can see from the 5m flag where the turn judge rules can be very different.

Yeah I think I was right at the weekend. It was a really crap turn (9 year old) but it wasn’t a dq I don’t think. Not least because her body was kinda floppy so she was turning in a very exaggerated way as she did it.

it might be the results were wrong and she was dq’d for something else but it said T1 so I was a bit puzzled.

The other one, I think was possibly the way I explained it.

Thanks, you’ve helped ☺️

The average 9 yr old turns in a club gala aren't generally brilliant anyway and by giving benefit of the doubt, you've done the right thing.

Has the backstroke turn rule changed? My understanding was that once the swimmer had turned onto the breast they can keep kicking but can only take one single or simultaneous arm pull and once the hand(s) reach(es) the hip line must immediately initiate the turn. Swimmers that turned onto the breast early were taught to slow the arm pull and keep kicking to make the distance to the wall.

And this is why I volunteer to get entry fees/warm ups/marshalling.

There are a lot of "interesting" manoeuvres in open meets. Possibly more so, post lockdown, usually with the older splashy kids.

They can't travel on their front. Multiple kicks on their front with arm not moving is deemed not initiating the turn immediately. Now if that arm is still moving, they are still in the process of initiating the turn and is therefore legal

Aagh, you’re right of course - you can only slow the arm pull to make up the distance.

You can see why I gave up judging for recording - a comfy seat and unlimited coffee.

This is why I take the spectators money and run the raffle! I do sometimes think though they should have a judge standing up on the balcony where we are because we see a lot of things (especially) in the middle lanes that they don't.

Multiple kicks on their front with arm not moving is deemed not initiating the turn immediately.

Agh no wait, I am right - as long as the arm is moving the swimmer can kick - it’s as soon as the arm (or arms) stops moving the swimmer must immediately initiate the turn.

Hence watching the arms and forgetting about the legs until the arms stop moving. If the arms stop and there’s a glide or multiple kicks then that’s a report.

So glad I no longer have to judge 😬

Yep, you are dead right on that! Lighting on centre lanes makes turns hard work and it would also be easier for stroke judges if we had a raised walkway at times too. The centre lanes get away with so much although not so much at the recent World Champs with the cameras

Watching from the balcony at training I absolutely agree with you.

We often say the coaches should take turns to watch from balcony too as you can see all those little faults the lights hide that may not get hidden at certain pools, meets and lane allocations!!!

we see a lot of things (especially) in the middle lanes that they don't

I think this ^^ is completely true. There is no way that the swimmers in lanes 1 and 8 aren’t at higher risk of being dq’d than all the others.

I agree about younger swimmers being floppy and therefore benefit of doubt is usually applied more.

I had a swimmer who I couldn't tell if they did 2 fly kicks badly or 2 floppy Breast kicks off the wall or a hood fly kick and floppy breast or fly.

It was so unclear I gave benefit of doubt (novice meet) but did pull the coach over and say so they could support the swimmer and have a word!!!

I have been known to let coaches know that there have been some dubious looking techniques and touches which left unchecked would more than likely lead to a DQ in future.

Maybe each meet should have a couple of officials sat in tall lifeguard chairs!

Just looking at Meet Mobile, I reckon we're doling out more DQ's than we did pre-covid. I put it down to their being more new/in training judges, but maybe it is the kids.

I like the idea of tall chairs to get better visibility further down the pool!

I also like the idea of lifeguard chairs.

I've been a timekeeper for years and did my judge 1 course online the beginning of the year.

But due to restrictions, my mums health and death and the fact I had a hysterectomy yesterday I don't think I'll be getting my practical completed in the timescale!

I think I'll just give up and start again in the new year!

You'd more than likely get an exemption for the surgery. Worth speaking to your regional officials bod to find out

That's a good point.

It's going to be LC I struggle to get in. Lots of SC meets in early season to warm up the younger ones and for older ones to qualify for counties.

I've got 2 days of LC meet coming up and I did 3 days of regionals to get all my post hours J2 qualification in before starting the next bit. Our area likes J1 to have lots of non licence competition experience - fortunately I got that done when mine were still the age to do those younger meets

Yeah that may be the issue.

I signed up because the covid rules allowed judge in training to do turns etc at meets and I was helping out our fantastic area leader with the league galas starting to get the younger swimmers involved in competition.

Ds has only swam L1 meets since last October when he was classified and it's been hard to get mentoring sorted and then I've not been in action really since March.

I can do computer room and rather like and prefer the behind the scenes stuff so I may just stick to that!