December Music Thread

[Wafflenose]

Have a new thread for December!

This is an ongoing chat group for musicians, parents of musicians and anyone interested in music. We talk about practice, scales, theory, instrument hire and purchase, concerts, exams, auditions and loads more. Newcomers and beginners are extra specially welcome - yes, a lot of us now have children who are getting quite advanced, but we all had beginners once. I started the conversation when my eldest was 6 and working towards Grade 1, and we now have learners of all ages and standards on here.

I am a teacher of woodwind, and have two daughters. Goo is 12 and in Year 7. She loves her new school, and has grown up fast since she started. The first few weeks were overwhelming and confusing. She loved the challenge of new subjects, new faces, lots of different sports, etc. Unfortunately, she is a poster child for complacency, is now finding it all very easy, and doing the bare minimum again, sigh. She extends this approach to music too, putting in a bit of effort at the last minute, and often making an eleventh hour bid to change piece for important performances. She is gregarious, intense and obsessed with her phone. Oops, I forgot to say, she plays the flute and piano. Grade 8 flute is pencilled in for some time next year (teacher is campaigning to wait until train tracks come off) and she hasn't performed on the piano or taken any exams yet.

Rara is 9, and a completely different kettle of fish. She likes music, but she likes reading, art and making things even more. She's talkative, eccentric and highly creative. I have no idea how her mind works. She is in Year 5 at the village primary, and couldn't really care less about academics. She plays the cello (working at an early Grade 4 level) and clarinet. Some of her clarinet pieces are Grade 4, but she is having some technical problems at the moment, mainly due to her size and incorrect placement of her fingers. So the next exam she does will probably be Grade 3.

Both girls are members of South West Music School (Rara starting next month) and both auditioned for the NCO. Goo was very pleased with herself, but Rara had an absolute disaster. She bounced back within a day though.

Goo didn't get back in. She is a reserve for U12. You can imagine how that went down.

How is she doing Waffle? Must have been really disappointing. To be honest, I’m bracing myself for similar news or a no. Just hope it’s soon!

As badly as can be expected for the most NCO obsessed child in the country. We have had silence, then tears, then anger.

Oh Waffle it seems to be a real tough year; am so sorry and hope Goo gets good news from waiting list. My dd would really like to know her results now.

Oh waffle I feel for her ( and you ) fingers crossed she gets to use her reserve place . Double I also just want to know now woke up early worrying about how ds will take the news if he doesn't get in ( which I also think is quite likely ) but at least then we would know and could concentrate on other stuff . It's so hard for them if they have done it before and enjoyed it he was much less bothered about the outcome last year .

I know others who haven’t heard yet - including the two other bassoonist that have been with dd for the last two years. Will be even worse if they get in and dd doesn’t as she sees them on a weekly basis and they all share the same teacher.

Does any one think after reading all these posts about the NCO that maybe having such a competitive process for such young children isn’t a great idea?

I thought DD didn’t mind at all being in regionals for the second year. But both her last practices she has been moaning that her violin playing sounds terrible and awful and generally being melodramatic. I am sure she will soon get over it!

But I was thinking maybe if they have loads of kids all at the right standard they should look at running more than one orchestra in each age band, or reduce the age bands to six months. That way it’s not such an obvious A and B stream like the age banded orchestras and the regionals.

Or maybe it’s a good opportunity for the children to learn something about resilience and not always being able to get what they want even if they do work hard and try their best.

I don’t know. I’m undecided.

In any case Waffle I do hope your daughter feels happier about it soon.

It is awful charis but I think that with anything at this level they have to ( with our help) develop a level of resilience . I am dreading it if ds doesn't get in he seems quite resigned to that at the moment but I know he will be cross and upset if it actually happens . I think I just seems worse this year because it's the first year of emails so we all hoped we'd hear quickly and we haven't Hopefully next year will seem better as the nco will have more experience of sending out results by email and we won't have such high expectations

Not quite as brutal as the audition that dd went to earlier in the year though where at the end of the process they were split into 2 groups and told yes or no on the spot !! At least it got it over and done with though

This one has no resilience whatsoever. I don't think she has the personality to make it as a professional now. She is bravely going to school but I have just emailed her teachers.

Poor Goo. Is this her first real setback? It is a shock for her, and it is very recent. I hope she is able to find some resilience over the next days. Well done to her for getting up and going to school.

Are any of her NCO friends in the same boat? Maybe chatting to one of them might help?

It just shows how competitive it is as you get older and I hope very much that Goo's reserve Place becomes a full one - I'm sure it was a very close thing. Glad she went to school this morning.
DS2 has his cello solo in the carol concert tonight. I heard him practise last night - if he focuses on dynamics he seems to get through the one tricky bar ok! Bizarre!

Charish, NCO may change how it works over the time to adjust to the needs. But I have no complain how they are currently operating and what they are offering as I genuinely think they are doing best they can.

It's tough but life is tough. And as Trumpet said I also saw situations even more brutal, in my case, in sports. Only exceptional players with right personalities are allowed to stay and you get tapped your shoulders after a session out of blue and are told that you don't need to come back next week. And they are as young as 9. I don't say it's right, but at some points things get really cruel.

As I wrote on the other thread, in Goo's case, I really do think it's the case of giving someone else an opportunity. We all know how fantastic she is. I don't think the reason for her to have missed a place is her playing standard. I really hope she stays with NCO and make a come back next year.

I'm with those that wonder if such competitiveness so young is good.
It's very hard because, unlike an actual competition, the children have no idea what standard they are up against, or ( it seems) what the panel are looking for - some people have had harsh comments but got in, others very good comments but got nowhere.
Of course, life in the music profession is tough; as a flautist, I've auditioned for positions with 100+ other applicants BUT everyone at that point understands the process, has been trained, prepared etc. for the business and it feels less personal.
I hate the idea that children may think a reserve/associate/no means they have failed and aren't any good. In particulat, children that have previously been in nationals may feel 'cast out' if they don't get in again.
I'm just not sure such a feeling of 'the elite' is healthy, either for those that are successful and those that aren't.

Waffle she is still very young and they all mature at different times. Who she is now is not who she will be at 16. When being good at something is the cornerstone of how you see yourself it is hard when you suddenly question that belief. It's not that she isn't as good as she thought, it's just that this year more people were better. It's not about her, it's a numbers thing. It may even be as simple as having more competition as children move to senior school and find out about NCO for the first time.

We went through this with GCSE music, anything less than A* would have been a personal affront and a total disaster.

Last night's carol service included a nursery nativity with a memorable rendition of "Little Donkey". Several of the sheep were taken out before the end as they were falling asleep, I'm guessing because sheep onsies are warmer than the other costumes.

But children who are aiming for, let's say, Olympics go through very intensive competitions when they are considered to be very young. Why do we have to think young musicians should be treated differently and sheltered? You don't need to compete at that level if you don't want to. There are lots of different competitions/organisations for different needs. We need something like NCO for those with high aspiring and those who get the benefit.

Icouldbe, you make an excellent point. It is not healthy to see your identity as what you do, and I think that is increasingly what children today are having put on them, particularly in school. Too much emphasis is put on achievement instead of effort and that can be devastating to a child's self esteem.
My own experience, growing up as a musical child was that that was what defined me, which was lovely when things were going well...but awful when they weren't. In my career, I've seen people have breakdowns when things go wrong with their playing; it's easy to forget we are humans, not robots.

I feel for those who are disappointed with the audition outcomes for NCO. It must be tough on children who were looking forward to seeing friends and enjoying the experience.

Unfortunately though I guess it's the same as any competitive process where there are more competitors than there are places. Someone will be disappointed and by entering into that process there is always a risk that that disappointment will be close to home and not always happen to someone else.

It happens throughout life doesn't it, the whole entrance to grammar school system is based on competition in this country if you choose to enter into it, then university places, then job interviews. Unfortunately it can't be avoided in life - unless you never put yourself forward for anything!

It's so so hard to see your children disappointed though. I know resilience is a bit of a buzzword these days but it's totally natural to also express that disappointment. A bit like a grieving process I guess (not to sound too dramatic about it - you know that I mean!) in that I think it's absolutely fine - especially for children - to be free to express their disappointment and not be expected to bounce back immediately. Everyone needs time to process bad news - especially when it's a bit of a shock.

But the Olympics is measurable, Kutik, as are maths tests.
Music just isn't - it's totally subjective. I'm not saying that things like NCO, NYO shouldn't exist, just that we, as parents, have to be mindful that our children don't over-identify with success or failure in such things. The idea that a child might give up something they love and are good at because they didn't get in, is totally counterproductive to their reason for existing.
Music isn't a competitive sport.

"Their reason for existing" meaning NCO/NYO's reason for existing, not the child's!

I also think if the competition like NCO is good for DC, maybe I should try some other music activities. No formal audition and just let young musicians to play the music together. Even we got in this year but I can image how disappointed my DD will be if next year she can not make it. If she gave up music beacuse of the tough competition, I would like she just enjoys the music without audition and exams.

I agree with all the words of Icouldbe and Japanese. Floot, I know music is not a competitive sport. But if you enter 'competitions' or 'auditions' you are automatically entering to the world of competing to others. Anything that comes with selecting process will create competition. I am not supporting the system. And I do share a big deal of heartache for my DS. But what I am saying is I accept that cruelness happens in many areas, and you can choose the level of pressure/competition because there are lots of different organisations for all kind of needs. I 100% agree with your point of who you are is not how successful you are.

Exactly, pianoandviolin. Although NCO is a wonderful place to enjoy music, it's not be-all and-all. If you feel the level of competition is not doing any good to your DCs, we parents can choose something that will be more beneficial to a particular child. On the other hand, there are DCs who benefit greatly from somewhere like NCO even though it could be devastating time to time.

be-all End-all!