Is it very bad to pressure DD to take up a brass instrument?

[BarneyBoots]

Dd is a pretty handy Grade 4 piano, and joining a girls secondary school next year with a good reputation for music. New school have written to ask if we want to arrange any lessons - and it's crystalised a long conversation about how it would be a good time to take up an 'ensemble' instrument.

Dd opening gambit: cello. I veto based on too heavy to carry 30 mins to school every day. Plus DS2 plays cello - and I think it would upstage him.

Gambit 2: violin or flute. I'm negative about these too - on the basis that there will be squillions of horribly squeaky violins and flutes at an all-girls school - and that DD would be 'behind' people that had played them for years.

Gambit 3: Clarinet. I am less rabidly negative - but it is DS1s instrument (it does seem rude to upstage - though DS1 is a more robust character than DS2). Also the issue of likely over-supply @ school. And a wider accusation of failure of imagination - on the basis that her reasoning is "XXX plays it & sounds nice" .

DH is projecting his thwarted ambitions onto his daughter strongly pro drum lessons. DD is open to that - but she wonders if she is too shy to be an effective drummer (and I'm inclined to agree. Plus rhythm is the weakest part of her piano playing).

I played piano in big band, coz I'm a violinist ;-).

Let the child choose. The only thing is that some are easier for "first steps", and apparently clarinettists transfer well to sax but not vice versa.

Let her learn what she wants to. And how can you say flute and violin are dull and competitive?? Flute is competitive because you only need 2 or 3 in a symphony orchestra. Violins are always needed because of the sheer numbers in an orchestra. Neither of the instruments is in any way dull.

If she isn't passionately interested in any instrument then does she need a second instrument at all? She could stick with the piano and really work at becoming good at it.

DD1 plays the tuba. I do driver her around a bit, but wrt school, the school has one that they keep there for her to play for lessons/school orchestra etc. and then she has another one that she plays at home and in other bands/orchestras.

Sax is not an orchestral instrument, so if that matters to you/her, I'd recommend starting with clarinet and then moving to sax as a second instrument later.

Trumpets/cornets are not in short supply, though I'd also argue that cornets (in particular) are not 'honky' - they are quite mellow in fact.

If she wants to play a brass instrument I'd suggest french horn. But seriously, I'd let her choose - unless she's enthusiastic this will go nowhere.

*drive. Sorry.

Also, sorry, I missed the fact that this has 4 pages, so apologies if I've repeated what a gazillion others have already said.

Barney I know all that, I am a pianist, clarinetist who occasionally picks up a saxophone, and pretty decent recorder player.

I did lots of ensemble playing, and I adored it.

For me, piano was something I learnt because it gave me a good musical education, but I loved the instruments I played in groups, and consequently I practised more and became far more proficient.

But your DD loves her piano, and if that is who she is, then why are you trying to shoe horn her into being something else? If you are so desperate that she take up a second instrument, then for goodness sake let her choose which one. Maybe once she is actually at the school she will feel differently.

Why does it matter if she never makes it to the first violins? I can't see how you forcing her to play an instrument of your choice is ever going to work!

FFS, OP, it isn't "romantic" or "child-centred" (I can hear the sneer in that). Actually, it's practical. And musical.

I understand the practical side of vetoing certain instruments (e.g. bass or cello), but this kind of controlling is crazy.

Back off, and let her choose the instrument.

I'm for letting them choose if they have a preference. Suggestions are okay if they don't.
Having said that I must point out that this approach has landed me with two double bass players and one trombonist ( who had had no problem playing with braces!).
Number 4 is just about to choose his second instrument ( they all started out on piano) and I've suggested something small but he's keen on drums!

And we do less driving basses around than you'd imagine. Both the primary school and secondary school have their own basses, as does the youth orchestra!

If she wants ensembles (and I think you are v wise to realise that in a musical school, going into Y7 you are v unlikely to be 'the pianist' in the big band), I think you are right to look at what instruments she can make fast progress on (and that probably isn't going to be violin!). My dd plays cello, and it is a total PITA on the buses.

So - if she wants mainly orchestral, go with french horn or oboe, or double bass (if there's a bass in school). Bass has the advantage of being quick to pick up, and also is the same fingering as bass guitar - so she can do the full range of ensembles - orchestra/jazzband and also more rock/pop/show band type stuff.

If she's more interested in the band side, then maybe sax, but a lot of band parts assume the player plays flute/clarinet/sax (say if she wanted to play in a band for a musical), so that's worth considering too.

Tbh I think bass might be your answer!!

I'd say it's pretty pointless pushing a child to take up any instrument that they have no interest in learning!

If your DD is starting Y7 in September, she won't be the only one who doesn't play an obvious ensemble instrument (piano is great in jazz/swing bands - my secondary school swing band had a pupil pianist) as not every child will have had the opportunity to learn an instrument at primary school. I think you may be disappointed if you push her towards learning the trumpet/cornet with the thinking that few children will join the school already playing it...here in SE13 the borough music service is breeding young brass players, trumpeters in particular it would seem. DD1 is one of them (Y5, is taking grade 4 this month, has always had group lessons through school) and all the trumpeters in the music service jazz band are girls.

My DD has also taken up the flugelhorn (which isn't so championed by the music service) but DD2 has her heart set on playing the sousaphone . I must confess to suggesting to DD2 (who is 5 but has been obsessed with learning the sousaphone since she was 3) that she consider the trombone instead of the sousaphone on the grounds that the school doesn't offer sousaphone lessons. She's thinking about it.

My situation is rather different from yours because DD2 is so little but it does sound as though your DD knows who she is and what type of instrument might suit her. The trumpet can be very exposed. It suits DD1 down to the ground as she is very happy being noticed or being heard over other instruments. If your DD is shy, she is unlikely to enjoy such overt exposure but may appreciate the companionship offered by being one of two violas, or the opportunity to be one of eight violins. I've been trying to brainwash my girls into playing the doublebass if ever they fancy a stringed instrument but the reality is that I'd encourage them to play anything that suited them physically and that they were enthusiastic about. Including the sousaphone. When she's older.

I think people are being very judgemental. The child of course has to be up for the eventual choice but it is perfectly valid for a parent to seek to guide things a bit.

It slightly depends on how good the music is at your school. In our neck of the woods there would be absolutely no point in taking up strings at year 7 (I know that sounds a bit dreary and if a child a genuine burning urge to play the violin alone for year for the sheet abstract pleasure (!) then splendid but with hoards of grade 6-8 types around they wouldn't get any public air time)

I am a big fan of a more obscure instrument - of course the child has to be sold it / like it etc. bassoons are always a hit but are horribly expensive so watch out. Quite big too

I so t think one does look silly playing brass - if she is thinking of people with their cheeks puffed out , trumpeters eye shouldn't do that - it is poor technique. My son looks v neat doing it - you can't tell if he is playing or just holding it to his mouth (a strange overset cation I gained from watching his jazz band performing last night) He has been playing for exactly 7 years and installing grade 6 this term. The repertoire is great - fun jazz right through to lovely baroque with lots of ensemble playing. Lots of tune -carrying too

But don't take it up at her age if she is going to have braces - we are about to hit that wall (he is 12). I think wood wind is kinder - I played the sax with braces. Trombone too - the larger mouthpiece helps.

The new plastic trombones are fun and much lighter to carry. Would a pink one help?!

A pink one would kill it for her - not a girly-girl - but I enjoyed reading your message.

We have moved on from brass - and down to a (mutually agreed!) shortlist of

1. Drums
2. Clarinet
3. Double Bass

The ideal would be to 'trial' the instruments - and I might ask around if that is possible (would the school offer it...?).

Ask the school what they are short of... That's what we did and dd2 has just taken up the double bass aged 9! She started in January and is in the second orchestra already very small musical school. They've also said that she is very likely to progress quickly through the grades; nothing to do with her I don't think, just easier to progress apparently. Practice is a pain as she has to have someone there to 'place' the double bass on her. She's only tiny.

DH is a drummer and very shy. I couldn't imagine him on stage if it wasn't behind a drum kit. He walks on stage looking shy, gets behind his kit and visibly relaxes.
Also- won't it help her rhythm for her piano playing to learn the drums?
If you already have a drum kit and her dad can help it will be good father/daughter bonding time.

DH is very pro her taking up the drums! He's already taught her basic beats - and he's rigged up his electric drum kit to the Xbox Drum Hero/Band Hero - which they both have fun with (its basically drum karaoke - you drum along to a popular song with the drum track removed).

I agree that the shy thing isn't a deal breaker - and that the drums might be a good thing to hide behind. She really struggles to speak to strangers, won't sing in public - but performs piano recitals with flair.

The shy thing may change anyway. DD refused point blank to sing in front of anyone until about a year ago. Now she does solo gigs quite regularly (as a guitarist-singer).

If your dd is keen on drums and you have the kit already then why not! Clarinette is also a very versatile instrument in terms of musical styles and it's not "difficult" either.

My DD would love to try the double bass (she is a handy bass guitarist already) but it isnt going to happen!