Tiger/helicopter parents/ Have you been accused.

[morethanpotatoprints]

I am posting here but could apply just as easy as if placed in G*T or Education.

Has anybody been accused of the above by other parents, friends or worst a relative. Me and dh have always encouraged our children to be involved with activities as we think it important. We have 2 older dcs (20,17) and dd 8. the older ones had lots of encouragement and did activities for a while but one by one they went and now have one or 2 hobbies, which we still support when they are willing for us to, lol. My sister announced she was worried about me as I do too much for dd and didn't do the same for her brothers, this was to my dh. I was gob smacked. Dh and I named all the opportunities they were given and the support and encouragement that was no different to dd, except she has continued hers. She said I was a pushy mum and ruining her life. My sister has no control over her dd who is spoilt rotten and has no interests.

It occured to me that maybe other parents who have self motivating children may have experienced this and how they deal with it. I am posting this with a large stick attached to my hand whilst beating dd whilst she practices. I guess some people don't believe that children have their own minds and they won't continue activities they no longer enjoy.

Uf, so I'm not alone here if we're talking about tidying his room or putting his dirty clothes in the basket. That he does!
Poosh you're right, why do the parents who push in one direction - academic, achiving, protective - get all sort of names and the parents who push to the same degree in other directions - be tough, hit back, don't drop that you stupid, wash the car, etc - don't? Shall we call them boa constrictor mums?
Drop, same here. I had to clean - sweep, dust - and so did my sister even though she was allergic to dust. My brother, btw, was not asked to do anything. Imagine. After eating, my sister and I had to take our plates to the sink. My brother didn't!

No I haven't been accused of either.
Although I do worry sometimes that I do both!
I have a tendency to hover over DS at playgroups, primarily because he is usually the butt of other children's exuberance or grabby behaviour, but also because he will react to this and I don't want him to misbehave in turn. Don't need to do this so much now he's 4.6 as he is better at moving away from trouble.

I also have him doing football class, dance class and swimming - and would like him to take up tennis, self-defence of some variety and possibly horse riding (if he wants to). But I don't want to wear him out.

I try not to push him academically just yet, although I can't help but be disappointed that he has next to no interest in reading yet (I could read at 3) and still hasn't learnt to recognise all his numbers, but I understand that pushing him just now would probably be counterproductive, so I don't.

He certainly is encouraged to help out though. He helps to empty the dishwasher, he helps to lay the table, helps hang out the washing (hands me the pegs) and bring it in again (puts the pegs back in the bag). He will sweep up crumbs (or try to at least) and gets his toy Henry out while I'm vacuuming. He helps with baking and is allowed to watch with cooking but not to touch anything just yet (and DH doesn't even like him watching because he has strong issues with small children being burnt/scalded). But at the moment, he enjoys it! Long may it last. :)

SheBlackHawk, FWIW you don't strike me as either. There is a difference between encouraging and motivating as opposed to pushing, restricting, bullying, controlling which is the cruelty of the tiger mom. At my dds dance class there is a mother who sits at the front and gestures to her dd and tells her to smile, what to do with arms etc and it puts the others off. The child looks worried and is constantly looking at mother for approval. This must be awful for the poor thing. The child has started to say snidy comments to the other girls and told my dd yesterday "I'm the only good one here, everyone else is rubbish" She then went on to laugh when girls made mistakes. I rest my case.

Gosh that's horrible poor girl. Thanks morethan.

Sorry you will be wondering why I thanked you. I have changed my name as I have decided not to be a helicopter anymore if I ever was one. Sheblackhawk is dead.

Hardboiled, your dc sounds like he does lots of fun stuff besides his music practice. Its not like you punish him constantly if he gets things wrong. If you ever get the chance to watch the documentaries I saw it will open your eyes, it is pure cruelty. I believe it started in China as their ethos is to be the best at everything they do. The programmes were titled obviously (Tiger mom)but can't remember exactly. Maybe somebody else saw them. I hope you haven't been put off supporting your dc. I also think it is a narrow line and you have to be vigilent not to cross it especially when dcs start achieving good things. Your dc is caring so it is obvious you are not putting his abilities above his kindness to others, like the poor girl at dds dance class.

morethan - :o at your 'it started in China' remark.

You've obviously haven't spent any time living in the USA. Go there, watch a children's soccer or baseball game, observe the 'proud' parents on the sideline. THEN come back and talk to me/us about pushy Chinese parents :)

Yes morethan, I know what you mean. A tiger is a tiger and I'm far from one. But it's a thin line and it's so easy to cross it, especially in London, everyone is so competitive and you get dragged into it and I have to constantly remind myself I want to raise a well balance person and a happy boy. I could never stop supporting him because it's so much in mine and DHs nature and besides DS is also very ambitious and selfmotivated for himself and loves what he does. But I do like to hear what other parents do and then reflect on how I do things and learn to do things better. It's just interesting to hear other children younger than mine are being taught how to iron and make coffee! I'm sure learning life skills is compatible with music practice and homework and it can be made fun too. It can act as a chill pill because it's so practical, not mental or stressful at all. That's what I like about Mumsnet.

Oh God did I say "selfmotivated for himself"? Surely that's not good English.

sheblackhawk Nobody has said it makes you are terrible mother, but I think the response to your initial post indicates that probably the majority of parents would say it puts your parenting outside the bounds the the "norm" in one of those bell curve diagrams - I mean, seriously, you won't interupt the piano practice of a 10 yr old boy when his Gran wants to speak to him on the phone ???
To me 'helicopter parenting' is about not giving the dc enough space - yes, space to make mistakes and get things wrong, and even occasionally fall and bump themselves / get caught in the rain / sleep a night at camp without enough warmth (according to age), space to resolve their own problems or issues with friends, etc. It's about trying to micro manage their lives and not let them learn all those valuable skills such as how to negotiate, compromise, 'get on with it' when you don't get your choice, resolve differences, etc. and also learning things like how to plan, and what to do when plan a doesn't go according to plan.

PooshTun, I think maybe the term was given to the chinese because of the chinese tiger. I don't think the pushiness necessarily originated there, just the term.
Backforgood, I think you are so right. My dd micro manages her own life and is motivated and although she does help a bit its not nearly as much as her db's did. Because she is dancing or practising or at choir or in a show. This stops her from learning much of what you have said . So positive of this thread are 2 parents looking at how they bring their kids up. And no hard feelings I hope.

morethan - I accept what you are saying but I have a couple of Chinese friends who aren't too happy that Chinese people have become synonymous with OTT pushy parenting :)

My DS (7) is expected to help in the general day to day chores that affect him. Washing in laundry bin, plates to kitchen, tidy room etc. He also strips and re makes his bed.

He has just taken on music lessons at school (his choice) which will require him to practice and also he has spellings/ reading to learn and weekly homework. He has one swimming lesson a week, 1 club session after school and I am gently trying to persuade him to join scouts - so far he is not keen!

Despite all this DS is totally disorganised and quite infuriating at times with it and I was considering drawing up a timetable of things he could tick when done (including washing and brushing teeth!) to try and encourage independence.

Would I really be raising a brat if I did this? DS, so far, has been a very well behaved and passive child and will do things when asked but just doesn't get prioritising and leaves things to the last minute.

EG: I'll say bedtime in half hour. DS will say OK, then when I say bed annouce he hasn't done his spellings. I just think having a list will help him remember and organise fitting them in.

Youarekidding, we finally prepared a time table a few months ago after having to struggle to fit everything in and DS never knowing what was around the corner. It really has been a brilliant idea. He is so happy with it, he knows what's coming when, so it's never a surprise, he knows that when he is finished he will have time to do other things, and he feels it is HIS thing. I used to pick him up from school and he'd ask me "what do I have to do today?" and I'd say, well I don't know it's not for me to say, do you have homework? do you want to play music? do you feel you need to practice the spellings for tomorrow's test? and it always felt like it was me who pushed and pushed. I was so tired of it. Now instead he lets me know. "When I get home I have to do this, and then this, and I mustn't forget to do this". I don't have to remind him at all! And he decides the order everyday and what he wants to start with. It makes him feel grown up and independent. He is twice as fast too, because he knows what it is and calculates how much time he will have left when he is finished! No doubt it will be very useful in secondary school. If he has a friend around, or family visiting, or something special, things just get shifted in a relaxed way of course. We just found what suits his personality. But children are different. When I was a child I loved having a diary where I wrote what I had to do everyday.
A timetable won't make him a brat. Whatever they say about me - helicopter, tiger, mosquito - DS is not a brat. Believe me, I'd love it if he didn't have any homework, but as that's not the reality, we just have to find solutions to get things done.

I just wanted to point that that I thought your post about 'boa constrictor' mums was a load of old bollocks, hard boiled.

Why on earth would a child whose parents believed in household chores automatically be encouraging him to be tough and fight back, and calling him 'stupid'? Utter load of old tripe. Particularly given that in your next post, you regaled us with tales of how your brother got off without doing the wimmin's work after dinner?

Load of old guff.

Jeysus cool it. That was not what I was saying or at least intended to say. I did not say it is the same parents who encourage house chores and encourage to fight back. I put commas in between. Next time I will put full stops. I am typing fast here. There are lots of different styles of parenting out there. I just said it is one specific type of parents who get all the bad press these days.

Thanks hardboiled it's lovely to see how the 'timetable' works. And yes it was more a to do list type thing I had in mind.

I was also thinking he could learn to shift things about so if he doesn't practice music one evening he can decide to shift it elsewhere.

This has all come from the fact I have realised he has forgotton the basics in life and he needs to be more indpenedent.

Yes, I know some people think that my daughter's hobbies are excessive... and I've had a few comments, but by and large I don't really care.

My DDs are 8 and 5 and have got quite a hectic schedule:

Monday - Gymnastics DD1, 3 hours, DD2, 1 hour
Tuesday - Dancing. DD1 2 hours, DD2 1 hour
Wednesday - DD1 Gymnastics for 3 hours and DD2 has 1/2 hour of swimming
Thursday - At the moment, a free day
Friday - Gymnastics DD1, 3hours, DD2, 1 hour.
Saturday - Usually day off. At the moment, DD1 has got extra lessons for her ballet exams that are coming up.
Sunday - DD1 3 hours of gym.

I know parents (on here and in real life) often comment about lack of free time and the like. But at the end of the day, DD1 has only got 2 hobbies, which she both loves. She does competitive gymnastics so that it quite time consuming. However, I'm very conscious that one bad move at gym could result in a broken bone and bang goes the gymnastics. I don't want her life to be just school and gym, I want her to have something outside of that. So she is allowed one extra hobby. I do not care what that hobby is - but I want it to be just for fun, no pressure, something she doesn't have to work at, something that she purely enjoys. I don't care whether it is brownies or kickboxing. DD though has chosen dancing... and she's quite good at it. She was asked to do extra dancing and compete at festivals, but we've said no to that as the gym is too much. It is nice to know that that is something she could fall back on if the gym doesn't work out (and her dancing teacher has said as much).

Outside of that, she doesn't really have chores but she is expected to be independent and get herself sorted for school etc.. and at the weekends, she is usually off over the park, riding her bike, calling for friends etc...

So yes, we have a timetable of sorts to manage her gym / dancing schedule, but outside of that she is free to do what she wants and she comes and goes accordingly.

I have become a helicopter parents once my son decided he wanted to be a musician. It costs so much in terms or time and finances that I do encourage DS to avoid certain activities where there is a strong chance of breaking a limb or digit. I hate it and I do try and compensate - he's a great swimmer and rower! in saying that he nearly fell off the side of a mountain not that long ago so I'm not completely OTT.

Is he really go to avoid activities in case of injury? How old is he? My dh wasn't put off and made a mess of his finger whilst playing in goal at the age of 27 Fortunately he is not a pianist as his finger is still a mess, but if he'd been kicked in the mouth..... Curiously it was 2 teams of musicians playing!

He's reminiscing now. It wasn't my dh that broke Aled Jones' leg in a football match, it was his friend....honest.

The most dangerous place has been at his music school where two boys, on separate occasions, threatened to break his arm! My son is an adrenal junky so although I can steer him away from Rugby I could never keep him injury free!

Bloody hell. I hope the school came down hard on those boys.

Well, I guess I'm a helicopter/tiger parent on this count.

My kids have done minimal household chores in term time ( diff in hols) but the eldest 2 seemed to pick it up pretty quickly once at uni - hardly takes a lifetime to learn how t wash up.

And the youngest is a serious musician and if I added any chores to her usual day, she'd be up til midnight every day... So to allow her to achieve her potential she is excused all but making her own bed.

And by all accounts, they've turned out to pretty popular happy kids.

Tiger and helicopter are different? Tiger - pushy; helicopter = micro-managing. You can be a tiger helicopter too, lawd help you. I got classified as pushy and stuck with it - thick skin, tiger-like snarl helped. I reckoned they were only young once so make the most of the opps. My kids' criticisms were usually about what I didn't let them do but they now admit they've also discovered there are only 7 days in a week and you have to sleep sometimes. So stick with it folks, they'll thank you. Helicopterism I struggle a bit more with. Helping to manage time and activities was definitely important, even in late teens for one, and encouraging to think about how to manage themselves. But if the word 'fussing' could be applied, then it was time to breathe out and back off. Oh - and I never ever interferred at university, which is where helicopter parents get particular stick - stayed in a B&B if I went to see them. They rang or emailed for advice or help if they needed it. The feeling of responsibility lifting from my shoulders was bliss! A job done, not perfectly, but as well as this mother could. Miss 'em!