DS 9 and football. Need your point of views to help me decide

[strawberryjamlover]

Hi all. DS 9 has been playing footbal for 4 years. The last 2 years he has been playing in a team.
2010-11 he went to trials and got picked by a very good team (under 9s) but he lost his confidence when playing with kids better than him and rarely played (maybe 7-10 mins). This was a huge waste of our time and petrol but we kept on going.
He then trialled for another team for this year as the coach told us that he wouldn't keep him on. He was fine with this as he wanted to leave as 'everyone else is better than me', despite pep talks along the lines of "keep going, you are good too" but still keeping it realistic, the others were better than him. BUT we feel he let his lack of confidence get in the way and that;s why his skills went down.
He got a place with a team for 2011-12 and it's been 50/50. The coach will keep him on BUT DS started to play badly again, not pressuring ball, not kicking hard enough so depsite 15 chances to score yesterday NO GOAL. My dad says it isn't up to just him to score and the others aren't necessarily better than him as team lose every game and everyone is same level.
My question is ... do we have a word with him and tell him that he should use his efforts elsewhere? He swims for a bridging squad and could put him time to use there. He plays guitar and is being entered for exam and teacher says his progression is fantastic.
Does he like it??? I've asked him and sometimes he says he does and others he says he doesn't. Arrgh ...feel as though we need to decide for him? Or do we carry on as we are for another year? Coach told us yesterady he is happy for everyone to carry on for another year.
With regard to confidence I'm not sure it does him any good to always be shouted at 'X why are you just watching?', 'X why didn't you pressure' etc.
He always leaves the pitch very flat but is quick to forget about it and never says that he doesn't want to go to football.
He is also in Scouts so he does socialise with others....please help me get some perspective on this. DH wants him to stop as he feels that he can play for school (he does) and use his time after school / weekend on other hobbies or just relaxing.
TIA xxxx

Yes winning is my thing, is that also the wrong way to think.

Like I said in the beginning I am in the minority because I think teams should be picked based on ability.
I have 2 sons who play for the club, both started at age 7 and neither made the first team straight away but that pushed them to train harder, and improve their game.
If they did not improve and they were not picked, I would have suggested another sport because not everyone can be good at everything.

It just amazes me how a lot of people I know in rl are happy to put their children forward to be judged on musical and academic ability but when it comes to sports, all children must be equal.

Like I said before, sorry for the long rant but this has been something I have had to defend for 7 years.
My ds1 plays the violin, he is not the best at it and he did try out for the school orchestra and did not get in. To me, that is how it should be, if he is not of the standard they want, he doesn't get a place. My dd does drama and has never got the lead role-again that's fine, if they really want it they will have to practice harder.

This is the philosophy I live by, but find a lot of people to be hypocritical in rl, as in "x didn't get a place in school orchestra but z did because he is a naturally gifted musician. However when z doesnt get picked for football, there should be an inclusive policy.

I think I may have let my issues cloud my judgement whilst posting, as I was assuming everyone on here has the same beliefs.

As long as the club you are at fulfills your expectations and more importantly, the children are happy then that can only be a good thing, regardless of the inclusive/ non inclusive issue.

I'm thinking of totally changing my opinion to agree with tantrums then the predominance of football will be undermined as far fewer will play the game having been excluded at primary age (only in relation to early competitiveness in football mind). Other sports which cultivate sportsmanship will then enjoy more funding, greater participation and higher profile.

How is competitive football unsportsmanlike?

No, I agree there is a lot of disrespect for officials at matches.
At our club, if one of the parents of the u8-10 abuse the referee they are banned from the next match. From u10-u16, if a parent or player abuses the ref, they miss the next match.

I am totally with Seeker and others, and have to disagree with Tantrums. The OP is talking about a 9 yr old !!!
My dd started to go to training at her school team this year (she's Yr5), and, to start with, didn't have much of an idea. However, they have a brilliant teacher who believes completely in involving as many children in sport as he can. Everyone who turns up to training gets their chance to play. By doing this, he has nurtured the talents of so many of the girls. You wouldn't recognise them as being the same players as they were in September. Yes, it's comptitive in that they want to win and he gets very despondent if the don't, but the players have only got better because he has encouraged them all to play and coached them all to improve. As the Yr6s leave, he's already got 1/2 a team with a lot of experience to start off next year, because he's encouraged everyone who wants to, to have a go.
When ds was there, the previous teacher just wanted the elite few, and told a lot of 9, 10 and 11 yr olds they weren't good enough . Tell me tantrums - (even setting aside the thought of encouraging everyone to live a healthy lifestyle and keep fit) how are those deemed 'not good enough' to improve, if not allowed to play?

They come to training every Wednesday and Saturday like my 2 boys did, they spend the first half of the season playing 5-10 minutes of the match like my 2 boys did and then they either improve and become a regular first team player or they don't. Either way the oppourtunity is there.

And my boys were 7 when they started playing for the team, ds1 is now 13, still plays for the club and ds2 is 8 and still there.

Please read my first response to OP when I explained my ds2s situation and gave her advice based on MY experiences as that would probably answered all those points.

I do feel that you are not hearing me, tantrums. Our inclusive team is currently over 30 points ahead in their league- winning 17 matches against more traditionally structure teams. And there have been many benefits to all concerned along the way. Not least the fact that kids have the opportunity to develop at different times, and have not judged as useless at the age of 7.

Seeker, I said earlier on what is working for your team is great, and as our team is also unbeaten and cup winners then our method worked for us.

I said that earlier on and acknowledged the success your team had enjoyed and applauded you for that.

Clearly you are not bothering to read my posts, I said that when my son started at age 7 the other boys had been in pre season training and he was not as good.
He only played 5-10 mins every match
He trained extra hard and worked his way into the first team.
Any other 7 yr old at our club can do the same by training hard and getting better but whilst they are not first team standard they will not start and play the whole game. You clearly have a problem with a child being told that they are not first team standard and need to train hard, that's your opinion.
My opinion is parents who join the team for the first time and expect their children to play centre midfield with the captains armband on even though they have never played with the team before are disillusioned.
The way it goes is put effort in, train hard, get better, make the first team.

I have said this before, please try and read everything before you jump on me

Pl

Oh does the fact that a team of 9yo win a match or not, are unbeaten or not really matter that much??

Peppe- do you know any 9 year old boys??????????

There's a BIG difference between what most people are saying on here Tantrums - that no-one should be deemed 'not good enough to get to play a decent amount of the game' at 9 years old, and what you are saying about people expecting their dcs to walk into the team captains role without playing with the team before - which only you are suggesting. No-one else is suggesting that. Most people are trying to get you to understand that children evelop at different ages, and that children will only get the chance to develop by getting practice in. Yes, in theory people can get all the practice they want in training, but, for most normal people, that is a bit disappointing, and likely to put them off, if they never get the chance to 'perform' (just the same as it would if you were learning a musical instrument - all lessons and practice but no chance to showcase what you are learning leads to disillusionment in most people). Seeker is even able to quote just how sucessful the policy has been in her dc's club, and I can certainly say the same of my dd's team. The difference in skill levels OF THE WHOLE SQUAD over the last 6 months, is fantastic. ALL the girls are motivated, and maintained an interest and enthusiasm, because they know they are all given a fair chance by the teacher. Apart from their skills improving, and (what you seem to think is the important bit) the trophies have started rolling in now the season is comingto an end, the more important thig IMO is that many more dcs are commited to getting out of the house and into sport, than would be if just the elite team were allowed to play each game.

Ooh. I have a 6yr old ds who adores all things sporty (he'll play against himself in the garden if there's no one around to play with him, whizzing up and down the garden after the goal and safe in the knowledge he'll always be on the winning team :o )

But I am so dreading him wanting to join teams and play in leagues and watch family life get overtaken by football/ whatever. And this thread is making me dread it even more ( doubly so as I spent my school life trying to get out of most school sports like this - that ws more than enough and now its spectre is looming again. Argggghh!

Rubyrubyruby, I'm not saying that ds's team is brilliant. What I am saying is that they are beating teams that work on the "elite" system. Our inclusive team is as good or better as the ones who choose their squad and leave the others behind. And we don't leave a swathe of bruised and sad children in their wake.

My DS plays for his school team (which has just won their league - snap ruby) and his Sunday League Team (which is about mid-league - variable performances). Both teams are fairly inclusive - neither has an elite system - and the coaches sub on all the boys that turn up, whilst trying to keep a strong enough squad on the pitch. As they are U11 teams, most of the boys are pretty committed and both teams are keen to win (especially DS ) - it is a competitive sport, but the coaches do try to encourage everybody.

It sounds like your DS would either prefer a less competitive team with a more inclusive and encourageing coach, or a different sport.

Hi all - quick update. As soon as school broke up I had a chat with DS and asked him why he wasn't putting effort in. He told me he feels he isn't as good as others (not true!!) and why bother as he never gets man of the match. He looked back at one match when he scored winning goal but man of match given to his sub (think that was to build the other strikers confidence). SO I got him to tell all this to his manager just before match and manager gave him pep talk and explained the decision regarding man of match. Anyway he played fantastically - had 7-8 shots saved, passed, turned ith the ball, great play!
He felt so much better and I think I will need to ask manager to chat to him one-to-one regularly as otherwise he gets all down about it.
Thanks all for input.

I have two DSs - now 18 and 16, both of whom have played competitive football from 7. Despite neither of them being stars, they both still get enormous enjoyment from it, that for them, is not matched by any other sport. Both have done their share of turning up for matches for 5-10 minutes of play. This is increasingly the case in the higher age groups. There is also an element of having to "play your way in" to a new team.

In our area there is a league system with teams going up a league or being relegated at the end of each season. There are 4 leagues (I think) with a huge range of standards.

If this is the case in your area, why don't you look for a local team in a lower league where your son can shine a bit more?