Training using HR zones anyone?

[Rollerbird]

I have a heart rate monitor ordered and interested in some zone 2 running with the aim of improving running speed.
I also do CrossFit so interested in seeing how hard I actually train there!
Anyone use this to help their training?
I'd be interested in any insight

@FrangipaniBlue @SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc

Thank you for taking the time to explain, and to the OP apologies for 'hijacking'.

I starting loosely z3 running about a year after 15 years of no exercise at all. Nadder. It was a bit of a random thing, I didn't really do any research, but I found it relatively easy (of course!) and probably most importantly for me it has become a habit which I know I can maintain (3x5km a week and I don't ache, haven't hurt my knees etc)

More recently I've been getting 'bored' with making no speed progress (and now I understand why) so I've been pushing into z4-5 for periods and then walking to get back to z2-3. Sounds like that's something I should continue.

I have no races in mind, no big goals etc. What I want is to get 45-60 mins of running in 3 times a week as a sustainable way of getting out of the house, bit of head time AND I hope making my heart a little stronger. Maybe I need some kind of goal but currently just the repetition of running is a good result.

Hi @Rainsdropskeepfalling

I’d never be prescriptive without knowing a lot more. Ultimately, if you are enjoying what you’re doing and you don’t have any specific goals, then keep at it!

If someone with 3hrs max in a week wants to improve, I’d normally keep the majority of the training in zone 1 and 2. Whilst not perfect, you’ll get pretty close to the top of zone 2 at a pace where you’re breathing a bit harder than usual, but can still speak full sentences.

If someone wants to spice up a few of the sessions there are many options e.g.

Last 20 minutes in one session increase the speed a bit and enter into zone 3 (targeting improvements in aerobic threshold)
3-10 minute intervals in zone 4 for a total duration of 20 minutes (targeting anaerobic threshold)
6x3 min intervals in zone 5 with a work/rest ratio of 2:1 (VO2 max)
Add in some strides (faster runs) 4x10 seconds at the end of one of your normal runs
Add in a few hill bounds if you live near a hill

Or, forget about the above and just do a good old-fashioned Swedish fartlek i.e. randomly speed up quite a lot at points during the run. Slow down when you feel like it.

There’s an almost infinite amount of variety. The main things to think about would be:

(i) if you aren’t used to changing speed your body may not be adapted for the increase in force. Take it easy and don’t do a harder session more than once per week.
(ii) if you're enjoying what you’re doing and don’t enjoy changing the sessions, stick with what you do enjoy.

Consistency and volume beat intensity, so make sure you don’t go so hard that you’re not able to train for a few days.

Many find team sports good for adding intensity.

Thanks for these tips. I'd love to get an assessment done and I found a university near me. It will be really interesting as I have a lung condition.

I've been trying out stepping up my pace to get into the Zone 4, then dropping back. I'm not sure on the exact HRs so it's guesswork but I can feel when the lactic acid builds up which I am guessing is Zone 3.

From what I understand you can't improve gas transfer (how well air gets converted to oxygen for cells), as that is to do with lung surface area and how well blood and air are matched, but you can get stronger.

Their maximum fat oxidisation is at quite a low point and they switch to burning primarily glucose at a low HR. This is one thing low HR training is trying to improve.

This was my issue, which is not good for a long distance triathlete!

At the start of this year I changed my diet to reverse this and so far it's been working

Ooh @FrangipaniBlue how did you do that - what have you been eating? And how do you know it’s working?

(not a long distance triathlete, but dabbling in duathlon and thinking about a marathon…)

Interested too. I read that unfasted cardio decreases fat oxidation by 30%. Which is a shame as I hate fasted cardio
😁but will try an endorphin boosting run before breakfast.

Have a look up Dan Plews/Endure IQ - there's a really good podcast about it (right fuelright time).

I basically low carb, but not at such an extreme level as keto.

I eat between 1800-3000 calories per day (depending on what training I have scheduled) and I track my food using something like MFP. I try to make sure I eat 20% carbs, 30% protein and 50% fat across the day.

But the main thing is eating the right things at the right time.

So for short HIIT type training (Z4/Z5) which I usually do in morning, I eat a higher fat/protein breakfast and have the carbs after/later in the day.

For a longer "endurance" training session like long Z2 runs and long bike rides I eat carbs during the training session.

There are 2 ways I know it's working:

1. more energy, in finding I can get through my training sessions better and I'm not "bonking"
2. I do regular testing with my coach, one of which showed I was heavily reliant on carbs for fuel. When we retested a few months later it had significantly improved!

I don’t get the HR stuff at all. My max HR is at least 190, which is way higher than my watch says it should be. Therefore, I’m always in zone 5. My resting HR is also high, probably too high, although I’m quite fit according to vo2 max. Does anyone have good resources? Everything I read says you need to go in a lab, which seems excessive.

Thanks @FrangipaniBlue !

@smooththecat you should be able to adjust the HR zones on your watch by amending the max HR value to your actual max HR. I did this and found it much easier to stick to lower zones afterwards!

Its more accurate I guess to get all this stuff tested in a lab, but for the average person surely an approximation is better than nothing. I think my max HR is fairly accurate as it was the max number measured by my watch during a hard interval session with runners that are faster than me, so I was really pushing myself.

Thank you, there’s good advice on this thread. I need to get my arse in gear and sort this out as I stare at the data and think it’s telling me nothing really.

Im getting my myzone strap tomorrow,the day I go on a canal holiday and won't be doing much exercise (I'm a CrossFitter).
I'm going to do some slow runs and just get used to it all. Test my Max in a week on a treadmill session. I'm definitely going to do the lab but need to budget.
I'm interested in the nutrition side too and will listen to the podcast. I hate low carb though. I am happy to do fasted cardio.

So I read the HR % zones on my Garmin tonight and they are quite different to the zones I've setup on my watch. And then I ignored that and went for a run mostly in zone 4..

I think I need to roughly work out my BPM for the zones....

My DH did the test in the lab and all his training and racing is based on his heart rate zones. It seems to be working for him. He didn’t ’hit the wall’ in his first marathon for example and got a good time.

Personally I like running by feel and don’t look at my heart rate or pace as I am running (although I do long, slow runs, interval sessions etc). I am also getting faster so I guess different methods work.

The order didn't arrive before I left to go on holiday 😭
Another week to wait.

Hi guys. Sorry to jump on the back of this thread but think some of the previous posters could help me. I am relatively new to running but have always been a keen walker (about an hour a day) so had an ok baseline fitness.

Looking back at my 5km runs (been doing them for about 6 weeks) - the majority of the time my hr is in zone 5 (see attached photo). Is this normal?

I did my first 5k the other day, it was hot and a lot of it was on a slight incline, my HR was always above 145 bpm, and the highest was 169 bpm (up a hill). I ran it in 41 minutes. Maybe you are going quite fast and altering the pace around might help? Sorry not a scientific answer but someone more knowledgeable might be along!

Yeah, all my runs are mainly in zone 5 as my heart rate can go up to around 190/195 even though I am old. I can sustain anywhere up to about 180. We can’t really be in zone 5 as that is meant to be towards VO2 max and we wouldn’t be able to maintain it for very long. I think the hr function on the watch is useless unless you set the zones yourself, but I don’t feel ready for the test yet. I do worry that it means I’m really unfit and about to die.

Hi @englishrose1234

Your zones may not be correctly calibrated, but it is normal to race a 5k starting in zone 4 with HR drifting into zone 5.

If you are training during the week and racing to beat your times in a 5k park run at the weekend, it wouldn’t be unusual to see such high HR’s during the weekend race. However, you may wish to slow down during most of your training runs.

How do you feel before, during and after the runs? Nervous before? Breathless during? Exhausted afterwards?

My guess would be that you need to develop your aerobic base. This would entail dramatically slowing down and keeping your HR capped below say 60%-70% of HR max. It might mean run/walking and walking uphill. It’s a slow process, but over time you’ll be able to go faster and faster at a lower HR, be fresher for when you want to push and probably enjoy the training more.

Thank-you everyone.

I don't believe I am going very fast - usual pace 7min/km.

During the run I tend to feel fine - and afterwards maybe some jelly legs / bit weak - I assumed this was normal though.

So I am thinking I will slow down a bit and try to keep HR below a certain level for the majority of the run. I did couch to 5k so used to walking then running etc.

Looking at my last run, my HR was zone 5 for 27 mins... surely that's not sustainable?

I have a MyZone HRM but can’t see what I’m working at until I upload it (unless I’m in the gym and staring at the monitor). It’s helpful to see how few calories I burn for all my efforts 😢 but would love to be able to gauge heart rate when out on my bike.

27 minutes in z5 is fine, that's where I would be if I was going all out to do a fast 5k. I would be out of breath but recover fast.

But you are right in that it's not sustainable for longer. When I race at half marathon/marathon distance I'd be in z4.

If your zones are the default settings though what it is saying is z5 could actually be z4 for you, that's why doing a 5k run test like the one I posted further up thread is a good way of getting your zones right from the start.

But as I and others have said, you shouldn't be always training in z3/4.

Training to improve overall fitness and speed is best done in z2 with some sessions in z5.

You need either a watch or bike computer that is compatible with your hrm.

I have a garmin edge on my bike and one of the screens (they are customisable) is set to show my current HR.

I have recently started running again, following the C25K but found it too easy so skipped a few weeks and am now doing about 7/8 km 3 times a week.
It was almost impossible for me to stay below Zone 5 to start with but I am now more in Zones 3 and 4 for what feel like easy runs. I still can't run at a Zone 2/3 pace, either I have to walk and my HR drops too low or I have to do a shuffle/jog, which I find really irritating and hard to sustain.

My son has a friend who runs for Ireland and he walks on easy runs if his heart rate gets too high, so there is no shame in it!
Edited to add: he also says not to worry if your HR spikes a bit going up hills, which are impossible to avoid round here.

@englishrose1234 easy running is often a lot slower than people realise.

As a back-of-the-envelope calculation:

I estimate your VO2 max at around 30 ml/kg/min or 8.5 Metabolic Equivalents (METS).
Your aerobic threshold (roughly the top of zone 2) is likely max 6 METS. This is equivalent to a jog/walk combination - jogging component less than 10 minutes or running 4 mph according to the Compendium of Physical Activity.
For pace, your top of zone 2 is then around 9.3 mins/km.

When doing slow training runs it can feel ridiculously slow, but trust the process.

You see Olympic cross-country skiers (typically the highest VO2 max) walking up hills to maintain good intensity control during training runs. Olympic level 5k runners are doing their easy days at up to double the pace of race pace.

@MagpiePi you should be walking in z2 if that's what you need to do to keep your HR low.

I used to walk uphills on my z2 runs, now I can run them.

That's the point, as you get fitter you can move faster but at the same low HR.

Constantly running up in z5 isn't good for you.