Training using HR zones anyone?

[Rollerbird]

I have a heart rate monitor ordered and interested in some zone 2 running with the aim of improving running speed.
I also do CrossFit so interested in seeing how hard I actually train there!
Anyone use this to help their training?
I'd be interested in any insight

Not properly but it's interesting to see how the body adapts to pushing. One week I can go into peak cardio for 6 minutes (spin class) and the next week I can do the same class at what feels like the same or more intensity and only go into peak cardio for 1 or 2 minutes. I've not tested it particularly scientifically 😂

I'm really looking forward to geeking out hahaha

I run in zone 3 - possibly my zones are different to yours though! I'm slow but my recovery time is half what it was and now I'm starting to run in half a zone up and it's nowhere near as much effort as it was a year ago.

I use a HR strap in training. Primarily to keep me honest (control intensity) during easy runs and threshold sessions.

I’m happy to answer any specific questions.

I’d be sceptical of determining your HR zones from online calculators or a device suggestion. In the lab, we see the the top of zone 2 (in a 5 zone model) between 35% and 75% of VO2 max. We’ve come across Crossfit participants with a good VO2 max, but poorly developed aerobic fitness: you see lactate rise and fat oxidation drop in the transition from walking to jogging.

All this is to say that it’s probably worth spending a bit and visiting a performance lab to get your VO2 max, LT1, LT2, HR zones, lactate curve and fat oxidation. With this info, you'll be able to make the most out of the HR strap.

@MistyTrains2 have a think about how you feel when your heart rate isn’t responding as it usually does. It could be adaptation as you get fitter, but trouble getting your HR up can also be a sign of overtraining.

@SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc thanks
I had thought about guaging Max HR via a warm up, tempo run, then max effort. From a suggestion online.
The lab test would be great. I'm not mega fit by any means, more decent beginner,so would feel like a fraud, and it might be overkill?
How would I find somewhere? Google somewhere offering metabolic testing?

@Rollerbird Don't feel like a fraud! I think the people who stand to benefit the most are beginners.

You can go to private clinics in most major cities, but many Universities offer it as a service via their Exercise Physiology departments. I'd start by googling some universities near you. You could use the search term: 'exercise physiology testing'.

I've been searching and found an option that looks feasible in association with a triathlon group but conducted at a university lab.
Just need to have a think rather than impulse book a session!

The best way to train to HR is to do a Lactate Threshold HR test wearing a HR monitor and a smart watch/running watch.

1. gentle 1km warm up, not much more that a fast walk pace. No need to record this with your watch.
2. run for 30 minutes AS HARD AS YOU CAN - record the run on your watch, after the first 10 minutes press the lap button.
3. at the end you will be able to see your HR from the last 20 minutes (ie after you pressed the lap button) - this is your LTHR

If you aren't confident with using the lap button, just start your watch recording after 10 minutes so that you are only tracking the last 20 minutes - easy peasy!

Plug your LTHR into the below:

Run Zones
Zone 1 Less than 85% of LTHR
Zone 2 85% to 89% of LTHR
Zone 3 90% to 94% of LTHR
Zone 4 95% to 99% of LTHR
Zone 5a 100% to 102% of LTHR
Zone 5b 103% to 106% of LTHR
Zone 5c More than 106% of LTHR

I do 3 runs a week. 2 of them are in Z2 (short run & a long run). The third I do intervals where I push my HR into Z4/Z5 then drop back to Z1/Z2.

You need to avoid Z3 like the plague, it's known as the dead zone and pretty much has very little training benefit in terms of improving your run pace.

and yes, it works! Although you do have to be patient, it can take up to 3 months to see a pace increase.

My top tip is to try and keep your short Z2 run to the same route and at the same time of day EVERY TIME.

The reason is because that's where you will see the increase in your pace. All other factors that can influence your pace (mainly the terrain/elevation profile) are the same so you are comparing like for like.

This is a really interesting thread.

I've terrible cardio fitness and am looking to improve. From what I can see I need to be in zone 5 to increase my VO2 max and cardio fitness for this but sometimes makes me feel a bit meh after. Heartburn type pain and sweating like a pig. I'm wondering if actually there is something wrong.

I'm 36 and my heart rate is about 197-202 when gunning it but stays around 175-180 when just going hard. It's not improved yet but I'm still trying.

Oh and I'm too fat and unheealthy to run so just cross trainer for now.

Depending on where you live @Rollerbird there's a good lab at Precision Health in London E1.

https://phgym.co.uk/

I did a full set of tests with them and it was incredibly interesting (as well as useful). I always train wearing a MyZone belt (plus Apple watch) and actively monitor my zones and recovery time throughout my sessions.

I'm in the NW
Could get easiest to Liverpool Manchester or Preston.

I've ordered the myzone belt but haven't got a smart watch

@FlamingYam - really glad you commented.

It’s a common misconception that you need to push hard to improve VO2 max. Unless you’re well trained, all zones can improve VO2 max.

If you have ‘terrible cardio’, your best use of time would be to increase your easy aerobic efforts. Go for walks and try to go at a pace faster than your normal leisurely pace, but where you’re starting to breathe harder. You should still be able to speak in full sentences.

Try to increase the frequency, and think about different opportunities to move rather than a set time in the gym. Over time, increase duration and then look at intensity. It’ll be way more enjoyable than the hard session(s) you’re currently doing.

We often say you need to earn the right to do the intense sessions. Your first priority should be to build the foundations (capilliarisation, increase in the number of mitochondria etc) through lower-intensity exercise. Once the foundations are built, you’ll be able to add intensity and recover from those harder sessions.

Once you start monitoring it, it gives you a real window into your health.

I have an as yet undiagnosed condition that is flaring up at the moment. My average heart rate for a 5km run is 148. Yesterday I thought I would try a run but my heart rate had gone up to 171 after a warm up km so I stopped running (I also suddenly felt exhausted).

My resting heart rate is about 52.

I find zone 2 running hard to maintain because for me to stay in it I have to walk at points but I love a zone 3 run.

Will be interesting to hear how you get on!

My zone belts are the best... really motivating

I’ve been following a 12 week training plan for the great north run and have been trying to keep my easy runs really easy by staying in zone 2. I use my Garmin Fenix watch to monitor, but I got an idea of my max HR from doing a hard interval session at looking at the max heart rate from that.

I’ve found that over time the pace I can run at while keeping my heart rate low has slightly increased- like a PP I had to walk at times to start with, but now I don’t have to do that really. I’ve been listening to some running podcasts (Run4it, Runners World) and several presenters and guests have talked about zone 2 training and 80/20 training, so doing 80% of your training at an easy pace then really pushing it for the other 20%. I have been doing everything easy with one hard intervals workout a week and I do think it’s working, although possibly my aerobic fitness was quite bad so would have improved whatever I did!

@SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc thank you for your reply.

So interesting and interestingly, my VO2 max improved more when I was away for the week and doing long dog walks over the cross trainer.

The info on Google is quite difficult to decipher as a novice. There wasn't much that made sense and the only solid advice was to stay in zone 5/over 171. I enjoy it and the heart rate goes to that over time anyway when exercising but I'll definitely pay attention to what you say. Thank you.

@WillWeSeeTheSunAgain that's the point, Z2 SHOULD feel too easy and most people when they start out will need to walk to keep their HR that low, especially on a hill.

Z3 is the "comfort zone". It feels like you're working but not enough for it to be uncomfortable.

But trust us when we tell you that it has virtually NO benefit in terms of increasing pace.

You need to work in Z2 to build the base fitness as @SportsAndExerciseMedicineDoc has said unthread with short sharp intervals into Z4/Z5.

My coach has a saying "if you always run in Z3, you will always run in Z3".

This is interesting. I think I am reaching Zone 4 but only for a minute then the lactic build up causes me to reduce. What you're sort of saying is to push more than what Zone 4 feels like (or is like if I can actually look at my watch at the same time), even if for less time, with the benefit being the lactate threshold goes up.

I've had to stop running unfortunately @FrangipaniBlue so am probably miles off training again annoyingly. The zones were interesting at the time though! I have never had the zones done properly - just worked out either on calculators or on Garmin/watch and there's a big difference between them all (up to 10bpm).

When/if I get started again, I will try it again. It was definitely more fun than doing distance/time goals I found!

What if I have to walk to stay in Z3? Is it just a case of sticking at it ? (I'm older and overweight and not an athlete in any shape or form!)

I've had mine done by vo2 testing and doing the run test, those came out broadly the same but the Garmin presets and the ones online that use age etc were a mile out 😂

I used to have to walk to keep my HR low, it's absolutely fine to do it! It doesn't matter whether you are walking or running, it's where your HR is that counts.

It doesn't matter if you are young, old, fit or overweight. HR is the measure of how hard you are working and how much you are asking of your body.

Where someone who is superfit might be able to run at 4 min/km at a HR of 145bpm, someone less fit, overweight or new to exercise will hit 145bpm just walking.

Both of these people are putting in the same level of effort!

Z2 or low HR training is about getting your body used to the movement of exercise, it's about time on your feet, getting your leg muscles used to walking or jogging, your core being engaged etc.

Z4/5 is about working your cardiovascular fitness, ie making your heart and lungs stronger.

You wouldn't walk straight into the gym as a newbie and try to squat the equivalent of your body weight. You'd build up gradually from lighter weights.

It's the same with Z4/5 HR - 1 minute intervals at a time is absolutely fine to begin with.

Just to clarify a few points:

Even top athletes walk up hills when doing easy sessions, keeping HR below their aerobic threshold.

There’s nothing inherently good or bad about training targeting any zone, including zone 3 in the 5 zone model. It all depends on what stimulus you’re trying to elicit. And, the demands of the race you’re training for.

Zone 1: recovery
Zone 2: base endurance
Zone 3: aerobic threshold
Zone 4: anaerobic threshold
Zone 5: maximum oxygen uptake

The polarised approach is quite popular (80% easy, 20% hard), but you see most endurance athletes take a pyramidal approach - volume in each zone goes down as the zone number gets higher.

We run a step test and look at lots of different aspects of on individuals physiology. In most inactive or recreationally active individuals, the most common weakness is a low aerobic threshold (zone 2). Their maximum fat oxidisation is at quite a low point and they switch to burning primarily glucose at a low HR. This is one thing low HR training is trying to improve. You also see lactate is high even at rest. But, that’s a whole other discussion!

For most people, spending a large amount of time in zone 1 and zone 2 and then doing smaller amounts of time in higher zones is what you’re looking for.

Working in zone 4 and 5 needs to be managed quite closely. Not controlling the intensity and going too hard is where a lot of people fall apart: overtrain, get injured etc etc