Marathon Training

[yetanotherdeskmove]

Have anyone else just started marathon training and wants to support each other?

Gosh, you don't need to apologise! I kind of forget people don't know

(See this is where the wise words come out)...

You will do another marathon as once you have finished, you feel so elated and super human, anything is possible - even running another marathon!

I'm not sure I'll do another one. I did one last year and I struggled so this year I've done a lot more training - started training in the autumn, lots of cross training, and I feel like I want my life back! But I do feel a lot more prepared this time.

I felt a lot stronger this time because since the summer I'd been running a lot (around 50 miles a week) plus I did a little core body strength training twice a week which I'm sure helped. I didn't have the muscle pain I had in my legs last year after starting to run again after each food station. It wasn't until the 35th km that I really started to wonder why I as doing another marathon. 5 minutes after finishing I wanted to do another one.

50 miles a week is a lot... I have been generally averaging about 35-40 miles these last few weeks, although the last couple of weeks were closer to 50 due to the long runs. This week is a 2 x 6, 1 x 9 and 1 x 13 which is only 34.

Really enjoyed my 9 miler today - a PB! Averaged 5 mins per km - which managing to maintain over 9 miles was pretty good for me. Would love to keep that pace up for a half marathon, so that's my aim on Friday - to do a half marathon in 1:45.

Have been reading up a lot about weight management whilst marathon training... I had no problem keeping a slim weight/body shape with HIIT when I was doing that (6 x a week with no running at all), but now I am doing mainly running and only a couple of Insanitys a week, my weight has gone up lots and I am hungry all the time. Apparently HIIT is an appetite suppressant AND a better burner of fat in the long run, vs long distance running, so now I am starting to understand why things have changed (and not really in a good way!) Don't get me wrong, I love running and all the benefits from it (de-stressing, higher fitness, meditative, stronger lungs and fitness etc.,) but I am not really loving the aesthetic effect. Am going to try to get back into 5:2 to try and combat it a bit.

Boobz it is well know that marathon training often leads to an increase in weight - you are hungrier and perhaps have more muscle. I certainly wasn't losing any so did 6:1 with a few 16:8 chucked in throughout the weeks. It took a good month but I lost 2 kgs without any adverse effect on my training at all.
50 miles a week was the minimum, for the last couple of months it was 80 miles a week.

Should add that also when trying to lose weight I increased my intake of protein rich foods to minimize muscle loss.

Boobz you are doing brilliantly.

Now that I'm at 20 miles for the long run I'm only doing 1 or 2 5ks in between plus a weekly swim and 1 or 2 intensive spin classes.

My last proper long run is Sunday then I have a half the week after, then two weeks later its the big day.

Wow! 50miles per week is amazing. I just don't think I could keep the motivation going. I am really in awe!

My schedule is 1 club run typically 7miles, 1 track session, 1 long run. I also do an hours swim and 1 pilates session.

I only run so don't really notice a difference in weight across different exercises - Although I tend to eat like I'm marathon training all the time

80 miles a week?? I am only doing 4 runs (and then 2 x HIIT on top of that, for 6 x a week work outs and one rest day) so I would have to do 20 miles every run to get to 80! How are you splitting that 80 out Anglaise? And where do you find the time - it takes me nearly 3 hours to do a 20 mile run, so I would be running for 3 hours every morning!

It was only 80 miles on the really long run weeks!
I work part time so have more time than many of you, but I often run two or three times a day, before and after work to take the dog out (3 or 4 kms) + other runs, so the mileage adds up fast.. One long run a week Saturday (32kms), Sunday dog runs and club session (16km) and then Monday 13 kms (dog run in morning, longer run in evening), Tuesday dog run morning, club session and dog run evening (16km), Wednesday dog run + 10km, Thursday and Friday dog run morning, 10 k run afternoon (28km).
I don't necessarily believe you need a rest day if you feel OK, just easy run days between the speedwork and long runs.
You really accumulate mileage when you split runs over the course of a day. I'm not saying it is what anyone should do, I have a border collie who needs a lot of exercise so I run instead of walk because it is quicker. There is probably a lot of junk mileage in there too, but it worked for me. I'm back running daily, not tired at all after the marathon on Sunday.

OMG I am exhausted looking at all of that. I can't be bothered to run twice a day as I can't be arsed to have more than one shower a day! You are probably the fittest person I know looking at that - kudos!

I'm with you Boobz. No way could I be bothered to shower that much and I only have a limited amount of running kit (I say pulling on old faithful running top)

I have to say I have thought about splitting the long run across a morning and evening run but that's usually when I am on a long run and thinking of anything I can do to stop!

Do you think splitting the run helps/counts?

I think it would be cheating.

Do you think splitting the run helps/counts?
Yes it does. I don't recommend ditching the long run or speedwork in your training plan, , but if you run more than once a day it certainly builds your endurance and increases the efficacy of glycogen take up by the muscles. I read an article on a very successful amateur marathon runner (from a long time ago) who didn't have time to run enough miles once a day, so he ran whenever he could, 2 or 3 times a day, shorter distances. It can work. I'm lucky in that I don't sweat, no-one in my running club can believe how little I sweat or go red when running, but that's the way it is for some people . Therefore I don't need to change clothes very often, even after a 10k run they don't smell. I cut my hair shorter for the marathon training so that washing it was less of a hassle after training.
But running is my drug and I love it, even running in the dark, wind and rain. It isn't for everyone.

Amazing Anglaise - can't believe you don't even sweat - you are superhuman!

Just did half marathon for my long run and did a PB of 1:44:47 which is 13 seconds under my aim so am so pleased! I know that doesn't mean I will run a 3:30 marathon but it's still really motivating.

Have decided to stop beating myself up about the weight gain. Am enjoying the training and the running so much, I figure I will just fuel my body as it needs it, especially as it seems to be working with my times all coming down. I will switch back to P90X & HIIT and less eating (hopefully!) come late April, in time to slim down for summer dresses in May...

Anglaise : That's a really interesting point about the glycogen etc. A lot of what I have read is about fuelling for the long runs and learning how the body works. It's interesting stuff and has certainly helped me look at my entire diet rather than seeing my long runs as a ticket to eat what I want

Boobz A 1:44 is a really good time and will give you a huge amount of confidence.

21mile run for me this weekend! Nerves are already kicking in!

Alp I love reading about the science of running and how to fuel and get your body to maximise glycogen efficiency take up. Running in a fasted state is also very good marathon preparation.
Boobz what time are you aiming for on your marathon? I only ask because the first one I did I wrongly paced myself and did the first half too fast and the second half a lot more slowly. If you have a goal time in mind you can check the internet for pacing and know how much time you should be taking for 10km, 15km, HM, 30km etc to ensure that you are within the time. In Barcelona I hit all the goals for 3H30 until the last 12kms when I took 1h05m instead of an hour. An experienced runner friend of mine and part time trainer told me before that in order to do 3H30 on a marathon you need to do 1H40m for a HM (which I'm not capable of, best time is 1H42). He as right. The general rule of thumb to estimate your marathon time is to double your HM time and add 10 minutes, which is what my time worked out at perfectly for the marathon last weekend.

I was originally aiming for sub 4 hours, then 3:50 and now I want to do 3:45 or less. I am scared of going out too fast and then crashing at the end, but having never done a full marathon nor a marathon event with people in the streets etc., I really don't know what to expect and am going to try not to put too much pressure on myself. Anything under 4 and I think I will be happy.

I am a bit worried about ruining my chances of a 3:45 mara because I am going to be right at the back with all the walkers - do you think that will really slow my first couple of kms down, or can you get out of the melee relatively quickly?

Oh and re pacing - I have a garmin and I just try to keep my average pace to 5:10 per km or below - rather than give myself km targets to hit in a time (for 5, 10, 20 etc - is that the wrong way to do it?)

I ran the first 5 or so KM with my DH yesterday, which were really fast (4:30 - 4:50 per km or even faster) and so I think that helped me get a 1:44 half mara!

Hi Boobz
No, definitely use your Garmin for pacing and be sure to build in a little contincency for the food station stops as you will lose time there. It is also quite nice to know that you are hitting the 'mileposts' - this Runners World pace generator wrist band is quite useful to see what you need to aim for for your HM, for example. It helps pass the time!
www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/runners-world-pace-band-generator/3918.html
Maybe the start of the Rome marathon will change this year, just make sure you are in the front of the SAS you are in. Your official time won't start until you cross the start line in any case and you should be well ahead of the walkers by the time you reach it...you will be at least 5 minutes behind the first SAS departure. At Barcelona it was better organised because the elites went off first and the next SAS (mine) waited 3 minutes before being allowed off, rather than everyone starting at the same time.

Brighton Marathon does a phased started which worked really well and gave a clearish run.

Like most races the first mile is congested - mine at Brighton was 9:36/mile which when I wanted 8:45-9/mile was enough to make me run a little too fast and I was hanging on by my teeth at the end!

Pace bands are really helpful as my ability to do maths and run is non existent!

Boobz I would love sub-4 hours. My marathon times have gone from 4:59, 4:22, 4:05. People say it's only 5mins you'll be fine but 5mins is a long time.

I really think a huge amount on the day is all about keeping your head not to go off too quick. Not to give in when it gets tough but to keep focussed and mentally stronger than the pain from your legs!

I'm hoping that I can do the 21miles tomorrow in 3hrs giving me the confidence I need to know I have an hour to do 5miles. 5 miles in an hour sounds easy enough- it's just the 21miles before which are the problem!

Good luck with the 21 miles alp!

Thanks for the pacing band - love it.

How did your 21 miles go Alp?

20+ miles again today. I am exhausted.