Brexit Mega Thread 16 – Who's Next?

[LouiseCollins28]

We are approaching the 6th anniversary of Brexit, or I suppose the 5th, if you count the period of transition as "in."

Since then, the world has endured Covid-19, seen war in Ukraine and many other things. Brexit has had reduced salience in the minds of many people recently.

When digesting the latest setbacks to befall the elite who govern our islands, a phrase I keep returning to, is “OK, so now do you get it?”

Brexit is undoubtedly the biggest “OK, so now do you get it?” moment directed at our leaders in my life. It’s surely the largest since 1979, since the Labour victory of 1945? or even since the advent of universal suffrage?

The U.K. local elections in 2026, and subsequent national ones, could see a big increase in support for the Green Party and Reform U.K. Two parties with more different attitudes to European integration could scarcely be found, so Brexit’s salience in the U.K. may rise again soon
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There are many electoral contests in progress or coming across Europe too (the Netherlands and France, for example) which will be worth paying attention to. Maybe the next questions we will face are less about "what next?" and more about "who's next?"

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion, whoever leads the nations of Europe, or leads the E.U. itself.

This doesn't answer my question.

Why would they come for Alex Pretti?

It wasn't meant as an answer, it's an observation

ICE arrested a nun on her way to church today.

Because, as I understand it, they believed he was holding a gun and potentially going to fire it at them. This case is qualitatively much, much worse for ICE than the Nicole Good case, as their belief was clearly, proven to be false in the aftermath. He had a gun, but one of them had removed it from his person, not Alex himself.

I understand Pretti did carry a gun which he was legally entitled to carry, though he was spectacularly stupid to carry in at a protest in the vicinity of a group of ICE agents. However, at no stage did he point it at officer. As I said before though, what they believe in the moment is what matters, not whether they are shown to be correct in that belief afterwards.

You misunderstand both cases but let's not derail the thread any further.

Plenty of anti immigration threads on MN for you to join.

Obama was prompted to say UK would be back of the queue for a trade deal. Watch the documentary:

Brexit - a very British civil war

As for the majority wanting to rejoin, maybe read the details more carefully. 55% say they support a rejoin, but falls to 35% if UK doesn’t get the same opt outs as before.

31% think they would be better off if UK rejoined EU. So that leaves 69% who think they would not be better off doesn’t it?

So, what are remain doing to prove (not estimate) to the 69% who think they won’t be better off?

So he was prompted to say his warning aloud? He wasn't lying though.

Which exact poll are you talking about @EEexpat ? There are a few to choose from.

@DuncinToffee

So he was prompted to say his warning aloud? He wasn't lying though.

Watch the documentary on YouTube. Brexit- A very British civil war. Also;

news.sky.com/story/cameron-personally-requested-obamas-back-of-the-queue-brexit-warning-11423669

The conversation went as follows:

Cameron wanted to dent leave campaign view that UK would get a deal with the US. Obama asked Osborne would it help is he said UK would be at the back of the queue. Osborne said it would be helpful.

When that failed to turn the tide, Osborne on 15 April 2016 issued a warning of an emergency budget that would:

increase taxes
reduce spending on services

if UK voted to leave the EU.

Outcome was that UK did vote to leave the EU, but there was never an emergency budget. Also, UK ended up with lower tariffs than the EU.

@DuncinToffee

Which exact poll are you talking about ? There are a few to choose from.

YouGov article 9 June 2026.

Trump is threatening again with 100% tariffs if the UK is nasty to his tech bros.

https://www.reuters.com/business/eus-side-us-trade-deal-come-into-force-july-1-2026-06-30/

This one?

https://yougov.com/en-gb/articles/54925-what-do-britons-think-of-brexit-10-years-since-the-referendum

It's a bit more nuanced then your comments make out

I understand Pretti did carry a gun which he was legally entitled to carry, though he was spectacularly stupid to carry in at a protest in the vicinity of a group of ICE agents.

I don't think that follows. In those states where people are legally allowed to bear arms, people tend to think that carrying a gun will protect them. So he would definitely want to have one at a protest, just in case!

What you seem to be implying ibut can't quite bring yourself to say is that it's OK for agents of the law to take pot shots at people if they don't like the look of them. Which is exactly what appears to be happening.

@DuncinToffee

It's a bit more nuanced then your comments make out

In what way? What’s not clear about the 31% thinking they would be better off?

Also, the 35% who would rejoin only if the previous opt outs were retained?

Remainers seem to be clinging to the 55% who think it was a bad idea to leave. But that’s looking backwards in time as opposed to forwards.

@Peregrina

In those states where people are legally allowed to bear arms.

All the more reason why police, or anyone else, would shoot first if felt threatened in any way. Hesitation could result in losing your life.

So he would definitely want to have one at a protest, just in case!

In case they feel threatened like those that did the shooting?

So, in states that allow people to carry guns, the police/ICE should just be allowed to shoot anyone they feel like, just in case they might have a gun?

Did I get that right?

@MaybeNotBob

the police/ICE should just be allowed to shoot anyone they feel like, just in case they might have a gun?
^^
Did I get that right?

No.

Figures vary, but it’s estimated that there are 120 guns for every 100 people in the US. So, there is a more than reasonable chance that people will be armed.

Perigrina made the statement:

So he would definitely want to have one at a protest, just in case!

If the police/ICE applied that same logic, then your comment

just in case they might have a gun?

Is less probable.

It’s about action, or lack of, that would be the determining factor whether or not a threat was imminent. Key word there was imminent.

If someone feels threatened they will take immediate action. Taking time to ask the other person whether or not they are armed and if they are, or are not, thinking of attacking, could be fatal. However, all such incidents should be investigated

"Oh, I felt threatened". Oh, that's OK then, just go around shooting anyone and use that excuse.

Do you not listen to yourselves?!

Ridiculous, isn't it? Where I'm from, you need a year's extra training before you are allowed to carry a firearm as a police officer, and major psychological screening.

Shootings by police are at a very, very low level. And ICE type behaviour doesn't happen - because those types don't pass the screening to even be allowed to be in the police.

Wanting armed rent-a-thugs because you hate immigrants isn't a good look.

When I've posted replies on past threads on this board using phrases like, "I do not want the kind of society you want", I mean it.

I don't read much from UK in a Changing in Europe these days as their anti-Brexit bias is just too obvious. However, while the below is a largely pro-Labour/anti-Lib Dem piece, I did find it interesting.

No EEA-sy options - UK in a changing Europe

I could potentially have been persuaded of the benefits of EFTA membership for the UK 10 years ago, or 5 years ago. Now those making that case would have a harder job. Controlling our own immigration system is finally starting to show some, positive effects in falling numbers.

Thanks largely to changes brought in by the Sunak government we've been able to start bringing immigration levels down (better late than never). That, without, so far, enacting the sort of restrictions on the freedom of citizens that might cause a state official to demand "Where are your papers?!". I know, I know, how oddly anti-authoritarian of me! 😉

@MaybeNotBob
@pointythings

Take a look at

https://www.statista.com/chart/35972/number-of-fatal-police-shootings-per-10-million-inhabitants-in-different-countries/?srsltid=AfmBOopSRpVicaPXIhYl3xr2zSAFrInsmT31NbkrHcjnLuZ6SUZQIrha

US tops the list with 33 per 10 million police shootings

Canada 10.2
France 3.9
Germany 2.0
England and Wales 0.3

No surprise about the US. However, France and Germany are well and of England and Wales.

That doesn't surprise me - both France and Germany have a police force which is routinely armed, whereas in the UK it is a specialist thing. I would expect the Netherlands to also score more police killings than the UK.

However, the US dwarfs all other figures. It does make me think their training is severely lacking - and of course ICE get even less training than the average US police officer.

There is a link to the Police violence report in those stats

Police officers do not get charged with the crimes very often, actually in less than 1% of the killings

Erm, I don't think this is quite the "gotcha" that you seem to think it is...

Do you honestly want to see MORE people shot? What kind of fucking psycho are you?

@pointythings

US tops the list as their constitution allows firearms. UK banned hand guns after the Dunblane incident.

@DuncinToffee

Two policemen are being investigated over the Henry Nowak incident.

@MaybeNotBob

Do you honestly want to see MORE people shot?

No. I don’t remember, or anyone else, making that statement.