Nigel farage

[Georgeianotits]

Can we all give our opinion on reform and that guy please.

@Abhannmor

Between 1973 and 2013 Ireland received over 40 billion from the EU. The contributions made by Ireland since 2013 are nowhere near 40 billion.

If an EU member has taken more than they have received, they are a net taker.

@DuncinToffee

Still waiting…..

Read the Oxford University Migration Observatory findings.

Net contributers benefit significantly

How? Many there are approximately 70 countries outside the EU who have deals with the EU. None of them are contributors.

Before Bulgaria became an EU member, the tax rate was 30%. After it became a member, tax rate was reduced to 10%. For every Euro Bulgaria gives to the EU they receive three Euros in return.

Poland, the biggest net take in the EU of all, has a tax rate of 10%.

Net contributors such as; Austria, France, Germany, Netherlands have tax rates over 50%.

Read the M.O. findings

Well, a link would be handy

Dr Peter Walsh
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c87yqp7eyqdo

Both you and Nige are still failing to list the Brexit benefits

@DuncinToffee

Lower immigration and taxes than;

Germany
France
Spain
Italy

Since being untied from the EU, the UK service industry has grown 50%. The service industry represents 80% of UK GDP and 83% of employment.

UK has lower tariffs on exports to the US than the EU. UK exports more to the US than to Germany.

17.4 million people got what they wanted, to leave the EU.

In 2017, 498 MPs (80%) voted to leave the EU. The outcome of the 2024 general election was that there are 538 MPs in parliament from parties who are pro Brexit.

You, and other remain supporters, are applying the same flawed logic which is:

if it’s not a benefit for you, it’s impossible to be a benefit for anyone

List the benefits to the UK then

Regards the BBC link, maybe people should read it in detail:

Key points are:

A rise is boat crossings is a response to crackdown on people trying to enter the UK via ferry and lorry.

Returns under the Dublin Agreement we’re measured in the 100s.

UK has the following perceived pull factors:

Family/friends. Was Brexit responsible for people who migrated to the UK before 2016? No is the answer.

English language is the most global. Was Brexit the cause of English being a global language? No is the answer.

Migrants think they can’t be deported due to non existence of Dublin agreement. The returns under the Dublin agreement were measured in the 100s.

UK is more tolerant. This is the UKs big failure. Free living at the taxpayers expense. Even President Macron has stated that the UK must disincentivise migrants from crossing the channel.

However, regardless of any of the suggested pull factors, the fact remains that UK has lower immigration than,

Germany
France
Spain
Italy.

@DuncinToffee

The benefits of leaving the UK has been the subject of many threads on MN. Maybe read them instead of ignoring.

Again, you are applying the flawed logic,

if it’s not a benefit for me, it can’t be a benefit for anyone.

There have been three general elections since the referendum in 2016. Rejoin/remain parties have come nowhere near close to winning any of them.

As you have previously stated, MPs each have their own personal email. So, why not email them and ask them why they are not pushing for the UK to trigger Article 49 to make an application to rejoin the EU.

DuncinToffee
Dr Peter Walsh
While it is not entirely clear why the UK was a net recipient of asylum seekers in the years after the Brexit vote, Dr Walsh added that "some legal experts suggested that it was because of dysfunction of the special Dublin returns unit at the Home Office".

The Home Office was probably hampered by legal challenges:

News - Dublin Regulations January 2016
Our firm is at the forefront of various litigations representing individuals and challenging removals to a number of countries such as Austria, Malta and Cyprus.
We are currently running the lead cases on Bulgaria and Hungary
https://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/publiclaw_news/Dublin_Regulations_and_the_escalation_of_the_migration_crisis_(28_January_2016).html

Update on France Dublin II Test Challenges (3 August 2016)
https://www.duncanlewis.co.uk/Legal_News/Update_on_France_Dublin_II_Test_Challenges_(3_August_2016).html

March 2016
The British government is fighting in several court cases for the right to use European asylum law to deport refugees and asylum seekers back to countries including Italy, which have taken in far more refugees than the UK.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/02/uk-fights-to-retain-dublin-law-to-deport-asylum-seekers

Duncan Lewis also announced in 2017 that they intended to challenge any resumption of Dublin returns to Greece - following an EU-wide 6 year suspension on returns to Greece.

Ed Davey claimed there were no legal cases/challenges.

No list of Farage Brexit Benefits?

@DuncinToffee

Have you emailed Nigel Farage yet? If yes, what was his reply? If not, why?

@Clavinova

Starmer was the lawyer who won the case in 2003 which entitled immigrants to benefits, seventeen years before Brexit. .

Tony Blair abolished the cap on immigration from Eastern Europe in 2006, fourteen years before Brexit. I was in Bulgaria at that time and many locals were having orgasm about being offered £25K in central London.

Cheaper labour was all Eastern Europe could offer. Corporations made more profit, but it pulled down wages for nationals.

Switzerland has said they will not become a full member of the EU because they fear their services will become stressed and wages may fall due to free movement.

I guess we will never get that list

Farage got his Brexit, the UK left the EU. He should be honoured his name is used for things that happened because of Brexit.

Now, what about those Reform policies people plan to vote for....

I guess we will never get that list

If you want a Farage list, you need to contact Farage.

Farage got his Brexit, the UK left the EU.

Article 50 was triggered by 498 MPs in 2017. So, it’s their Brexit. Their names are known, so why not contact them?

He should be honoured his name is used for things that happened because of Brexit.

Things is a bit generic. Maybe more detail required and proof of causation as opposed to correlation.

Now, what about those Reform policies people plan to vote for....

Read Reform manifesto issued before the 2024 general election. Until the date of the next election is announced, there won’t be anything else to review.

So the Farage Brexit fans can't provide a Brexit benefit list or disprove that Brexit was a factor in the increase of immigration.

You can find many links with cases of the Dublin agreement in action, either positive or negative.

The UK left the EU without anything in place.

Also, the Dublin agreement provided a safe route for unaccompanied children in Europe to reunite with family in the UK and that hasn't been replaced.

Children now risk their lives crossing the channel and children have died doing so.

Brexit has damaged the UK

@DuncinToffee

fans can't provide a Brexit benefit list or disprove that Brexit was a factor in the increase of immigration.

There is no such thing as the burden of disprove. The one that makes the accusation has the burden of proving guilt. It’s called the presumption of innocence.

If you read the BBC article you posted, it states the increase in boats arrivals is attributed to decrease in people attempting to enter the UK via ferry and back of lorry due to improved security.

There have been many threads on MN requesting Brexit benefits. Why don’t you read them? MN has a search engine. So, it will be an easy task.

Children now risk their lives crossing the channel and children have died doing so.

So, why don’t their families who are already in the UK go to Calais and collect them?

UNICEF estimates 1500 children have died crossing the Mediterranean Sea since 2018. Total deaths recorded since 2014 is 28,000

Since 2018, 152 people in total have died crossing the English Channel. The age profile of boat arrivals is estimated to be:

76% men aged over 18 (cowards fleeing the draft board in their native countries I would suggest)

14% under 18s

So, approximately 22 children have died crossing the English Channel compared to the 1500 crossing the Mediterranean Sea.

If the Dublin Agreement is effective, why are children crossing the Mediterranean Sea at all? Why are Spain and Italy not using the Dublin Agreement to prevent children crossing the Mediterranean Sea?

There is far more lost than just the Dublin agreement thanks to Farage Brexit.

The Mediterranean crossings aren't subject to the Dublin agreement.

If you think people should not seek refuge, just say so.

Farage was not one of the 498 MPs who voted to trigger Article 50 in March 2017. He couldn’t be as did not become an MP until July 2024, seven years later.

What prevents the EU from deporting people who have crossed the Mediterranean Sea?

If there were no immigrants entering the EU, there wouldn’t be any immigrants ending up in Calais waiting to cross the English Channel.

As for seeking refuge, why don’t remain supporters who have spare rooms use the rent a room scheme. They could earn up to £7500 per year (£144 per week) tax free. Cheaper for the government compared to hotels.

Farage had nothing to do with Brexit is certainly a new one

Who said that?

Some posters are very reluctant to credit Farage with Brexit and the consequences.

"Leave means leave, deal or no deal"

the Dublin agreement provided a safe route for unaccompanied children in Europe to reunite with family in the UK and that hasn't been replaced

I think I might be inclined to blame the EU for that;

The Government did not want to replicate the provisions of the Dublin Regulation.
It proposed two draft agreements with the EU which related to certain specific aspects of the Dublin Regulation:

• an agreement on the transfer of unaccompanied asylum-seeking children for family reunion purposes.
• a readmission agreement for accepting returns of irregularly residing UK/EU citizens and third country nationals.

The EU did not publish any comparable draft agreements.

Children now risk their lives crossing the channel and children have died doing so

It would be difficult to link specific cases to the loss of the Dublin Regulation without detailed information. The only recent death of a child I have some knowledge of is the 7-year old girl who was tragically suffocated in a boat off the coast of France last year. The family had already been denied asylum in Belgium and Sweden (they had lived in Sweden for a number of years) - therefore unlikely to have been able to use the Dublin Regulation as a safe route to enter the UK.

You can blame the EU Clav, what about the UK leaving the EU without any deal in place re asylum seekers?

This whataboutery about the Dublin agreement not being great does not change that.

Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to deal with refugees crossing the channel, do you disagree?

DuncinToffee
disprove that Brexit was a factor in the increase of immigration

If you are worried about immigration, then I would point out that Ukraine is likely to join the European Union within the next 5-10 years. Ukraine's pre-war population was more than double that of Romania and somewhat larger than Poland. It seems quite feasible that over one million Ukrainians would seek to come to the UK under EU freedom of movement rules if we were still a member. Ukraine was the poorest country in Europe even before the war. Then there is Albania...

I am not worried about immigration, it is coming down

Freedom of movement flows both ways. What is the problem with Ukrainian or Albanian immigrants?

Do you agree that Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to deal with asylum seekers. Do you think the 2023 peak would have happened without Brexit?

DuncinToffee ·
I am not worried about immigration, it is coming down

Great - not a Brexit problem then.

What is the problem with Ukrainian or Albanian immigrants?

Ask the Government - they've been deporting Albanians by the hundreds, if not thousands and the Ukraine visa scheme is a time-limited scheme which doesn't offer a route to indefinite leave to remain. Perhaps they are worried about numbers.

Do you agree that Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to deal with asylum seekers

Difficult to say either way.

Do you think the 2023 peak would have happened without Brexit?

Probably - Germany had a 2023 asylum peak:

2020 76,000
2021 190,000
2022 244,000
2023 334,000
2024 237,000

Republic of Ireland peak in 2024:

A total of 18,651 people applied for asylum in Ireland in 2024, exceeding the previous record by more than 5,000 people.

The previous highest year on record was 2023 when 13,264 people made applications for international protection.

Before that, the highest figure was recorded in 2002 when 11,598 people applied for asylum.

Regarding legal immigration - well over 6 million people have applied to the EU Settlement Scheme and counting - the Government were expecting fewer than 4 million people to apply. One million people who applied were not born in the EU.

I never said immigration was a Brexit problem, just that Brexit increased it.

Why is it difficulult for you to say if you think Brexit made it more difficult for the UK to deal with asylum seekers?

What is your issue with Ukranian or Albanian immigrants?

And what are the Farage brexit benefits?