Brexit mega thread part 15a - looking forwards

[Talkinpeace]

Just rebooting the most recent thread

At the moment the UKs issues are rather over shadowed by events elsewhere
but maybe that is a good thing.

The German election on Sunday is worth watching
Right wing European politicians pulling out of CPAC speeches because they realise its not a good look
Farage floundering to stay relevant

and the possibility of the return of free movement for our kids if not us

Relations between mainland Europe and the UK remain a worthy topic for discussion

You could just watch it on iPlayer

@DuncinToffee

Depending on where I am in the EU, it’s at least 1 hour ahead of uk, more often 2 hours ahead. Too late

As per the BBC website, due to rights, it’s necessary to be in the UK to stream and download programmes.

I am tempted to congratulate today everyone who's posted on these threads for years in favour of staying in and/or rejoining the European Union.

Congratulations pro-EU posters, you've won, and you didn't even need to hold a public vote, far less win one to secure fundamental changes to Britain's status tying us back into the EU for decades to come.

The harsh words I have for Starmer and his abject government I shall record on another platform, for my fellow posters on here, enjoy your win. I'm now very, very sad.

Closer ties to the EU is a move in the right direction but not a win.

What are you very very sad about?

Do you congratulate things that fall to the ground when thrown upwards ?

That we're now subject to EU law/alignment again in a whole host of areas. That utterly, utterly shamefully we appear to have accepted the EU as a defence entity in forming a "security pact" with them. EU access to UK waters for decades agreed to for seemingly very little in return. I want loser ties with the EU, not more, that's why I'm sad today.

Is X your other platform?

Like I said, I'll not get into Starmer on here because my thoughts are basically unprintable, but all i can do about that is vote against his candidates at future elections. Which I will be doing.

Well quite aside from the hyperbole, you are more than free to continue to support a political solution for the sort of country you want to live in.

Why are you not concerned about the US trade deal which requires us to be subject to the US Supreme Court ? Like our US extradition treaty ?

That we're now subject to EU law/alignment again in a whole host of areas.

We always were. We needed to trade with the biggest trading bloc in the world, and our nearest neighbours, so we had to align with pretty much everything already. There's insignificant change on that part, except to your, and Farage's, egos.

1. Because we have decades of friendship and allyship to show for our long allance with the United States, something that is not true for most of our European Union Member State neighbours.

2. Because the United States is a country, so it's entirely proper that their highest court should hold sway where their interests come into play re: extradition of their citizens. The EU is a superstate and the ECJ should not enjoy similar powers.

I should probably have said "nation state" in place of country. It will probably pre-emptively answer a lot of questions if people understand that my position is pretty simple.

If a nation state does something, that's OK but if super state does the same thing, it isn't. Nation states being entities where a single government exercises control sufficient to ensure the integrity of the whole and is responsible for the safety of all inhabitants.

Other levels of government exist. Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland have many of their own governmental structures and are clearly countries but they remain (currently) part of the U.K. whole.

Just to goad, I would have agreed with you in 2016 to a certain extent.

But now you are just making noises with your mouth.

If what you said had any depth, then how come the last Tory government was running around trumpeting all it's "deals" with individual countries states ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-signs-second-state-level-agreement-with-north-carolina

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-signs-trade-pact-with-second-biggest-us-state-texas

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-puts-pen-to-paper-on-fifth-trade-pact-with-a-us-state

1. Because we have decades of friendship and allyship to show for our long allance with the United States, something that is not true for most of our European Union Member State neighbours.

Granted that is probably true - 8 decades of kow-towing to the USA as opposed to a 1000 year plus history with our European neighbours. Admittedly sometimes we were at war with some of them but allied with others.

I can't remember any wars being held against Portugal though, although there may be the odd one.

Louise must be referring to a different US to the one that threatened to bankrupt Britain in 1956 if it continued to retake the Suez canal. Or possibly a bit forgetful.

Maybe it's unfair of me to remember a US that attempted to prevent the UK defending the Falklands, and a French government who gave us every technical assistance against the Argentine air force equipment they supplied.

If you can't see that countries don't have friends or enemies, only interests, then you aren't really that British are you ? I guess it's not for everyone. Explains why Farage is so bad at it.

I remember not so many months ago when the brexiters were bigging up NATO.
Doesn't look quite so good now, with Trump in the White House again, does it?

Farage most certainly wasn't bigging up NATO. He was doing as he was paid to do, and repeated Putins propaganda.

Does anyone remember when Sinn Fein had to be voiced by actors in order to prevent the glorification of terrorism (or some other bollocks). I can't help but think of that as I hear Farages Russian lilt on TV.

I actually largely agree, countries do just have interests. Our interests are not well served by aligning ourselves more closely with nations who've spent much of the last 1000 plus years trying to wipe us out and kill everyone who lives here.

Your example about the French government is laughable "they gave us technical assistance" holy fuck, they sold the Argentinians the missiles that got used to kill British service people and you're pleased because they gave us "technical assistance"

I think anyone who can look at the US right now and think that they are a better, more reliable and safer ally than the EU is delusional.

I admit that the news today made me REALLY REALLY happy.

It opens up job opportunities for both of my children to work all over Europe in the coming years.
Something I'd almost given up hope of.

Both are currently job hunting and this deal opens many doors for them

Fishing is 0.4% of UK GDP
(£4 in every £1000 of UK activity)
Brits do not eat the fish that live in our waters.

Our interests are not well served by aligning ourselves more closely with nations who've spent much of the last 1000 plus years trying to wipe us out and kill everyone who lives here.

Or we chose the better part of the 1000 years being allied with them.

Brits do not eat the fish that live in our waters.

It's quite simple - we need to give them a fancy Italian or Spanish name. E.g. squid - urgh, calamari - fine.

Cheezuz wept, where to start with Louise's nonsense?
How many countries do we sell arms to that turn out not to be among the nicest regimes?

And, somehow, individual states realising that they're better off in some sort of union is a wonderful thing on the other side of the Atlantic, but a bad, bad thing on this side.
It's ridiculous hypocrisy!

I'll tell you what I"M sad about: that the current US regime is shitting on its longstanding allies from such a dizzy height that the security pact you seem to disapprove of so badly is going to be not just necessary but vital. Trump was the one that pushed us back into the arms of the EU. Be angry with him.
I have always been a staunch remainer and could never see a good case for Brexit so I am personally very happy that we are starting to see sense. The US pre MAGA did make for a great partner (albeit it was always transactional)- but things have fundamentally changed. Of course, we've had to adjust and quick.