Brexit mega thread part 13: All eyes on Ireland

[SerendipityJane]

With the Windsor framework up & running, and the DUP having a "you could set your calendar by it" hissy fit, but Irish unification refusing to keep it's head down, what next in the long running sage of UK vs. the real world ?

@Peregrina So between five and six years ago. We can't fully blame Covid, although the Brexiters will try, because that didn't hit the UK until 2020.

The UK left the EU at 11pm UK time on 31 January 2020, not in 2018. Also, there was a transion period to 31 December 2020. So, some may say that UK had not fully left the EU until 31 December 2020.

COVID hit the World in March 2020, not just the UK, and did not begin to subside until 2022. Since 2022, several wars have contributed to chaos round the World in terms of energy prices and shipping.

@Peregrina They had four years before the Transition Period came into effect when they could have been working hard to Identify opportunities - instead they whined and whined about Remoaners.

As per Article 50, the UK was not permitted to enter into any negotiations regards trade deals whilst still in the EU. This was confirmed on the 40th aninversary episode of Question Time by James Cleverly in response to Gina Miller's comment about trade deals.

Between the referendum 23 June 2016 and general election 12 December 2019, was remain MPs attempting to ignore the referendum result. Examples include:

Extentions to the Article 50 two years negotiation on withdrawal agreement.
Gina Miller trying to use her wealth the cancel the referendum vote.
The Benn Act.
Brexit being lead by a remain supporting PM, T May.

@Peregrina The worst is that Cameron only called the Referendum because he was shit scared of UKIP. Now we are out of the EU and the Tories are still shit scared of what was UKIP now branded as Reform.

Is that because Cameron and current government think people supported UKIP and Reform. ie parties that believe in Brexit? I would say Labour have the same fears. Hence, they are not pushing to rejoin the EU.

@HannibalHeyes @Peregrina @SerendipityJane

Maybe the people interviewed regards passports were part of the 13 million that chose not to vote on 23 June 2016?

I find it amusing that remain supporters have clutched at every straw possible since 23 June 2016 in the hope that people will become scared of Brexit and change their minds. After almost eight years, I would have thought some would have worked out it is not working.

Global talking about clutching at straws...

Give me strength. Does Globetrotter2000 ever post anything worthwhile?

What was to stop Brexiters in June 2016, (long before Covid came along), sitting down and drawing up a spec. of what Trade Deals they would like? They didn't bother, hence when negotiations opened they hadn't got a clue.

It seems that you don't believe in Parliamentary democracy. MPs are elected to represent their constituents - if they genuinely thought Brexit bad for the country it was their duty to make the case.

I agree that Labour was on the fence over Brexit, but I don't recall their being a Labour Government since 2010 so whether they were scared of UKIP or not is an irrelevance, they didn't call the Referendum.

I don't belieive in parliamentary democracy being misused to override direct democracy. "if they genuinely thought Brexit bad for the country it was their duty to make the case." This was absolutely true before the results were declared, after that, it ceased to be. Anyhow that's all old hat, we have what we have.

The rise of Reform is interesting, I can't see much space in the political marketplace for "more Brexit" right now but they seemingly can. More interesting to think about what a new government might do about the Brexit settlement.

I don't agree that a one off referendum trumps Parliamentary democracy. But it seems that Brexiters do, because what you have got is Brexit.

We return back to the shelf life of the referendum in a universe where the maximum shelf life of a government is 5 years. And that is a question that no one has really tackled yet.

And just for the record, you can't possibly imagine something as badly delivered as the 2016 referendum is in any way "direct democracy". Indicative at best. Especially with a wafer thin majority.

Just on the off chance that someone following these threads isn't aware of Global's purpose, Garry Kasparov says it better than I could.

I suspect he was quoting Goebbels ....

@HannibalHeyes - except that doesn’t happen if you don’t bother reading his or her posts

All that effort I presume, from the distance I have to scroll to get past for nowt

On a larger stage, it seems the Great British Public have simply stopped listening to the Tories. A combination of knowing what they will say and that it will make fuck all difference, I suspect. Possibly coupled with Sunaks masterstroke of keeping the election dangling to ensure a population that has a goldfish attention span when it comes to politics are really disengaged.

The very real prospect of Tories coming 3rd has to be factored into odds now.

I have not watched it yet.

1

‘Brexit is no longer part of daily political discourse and dropped off the political agenda.’ Here’s why the UK needs to put the issue of Brexit back on the political agenda

Although Theresa May originally supported Remain she gave key ministerial posts to Brexiters including Johnson.

It could be argued that having campaigned to leave the EU for so long the Eurosceptics would have had detailed plans to actually implement Brexit. I wonder what research the ERG had actually been doing.

The TL;DR is that since 2016, Brexiteers have had everything they could have possibly needed to achieve their ends. Had those ends been remotely possible, let alone realistic.

The apogee was the 2019 election of a government solely - solely - on the single manifesto pledge to "get Brexit done".

There really isn't much more to it than that.

Brexit adjustments bring you

Is it just me, or is there a Baskervillian semblance trying to break through there ?

In what way have I not tackled it? What question do you have that I've not answered? I've told posters on here what my view of the "shelf life" of the referendum is many times.

I mean, if you think public referenda are always wrong and therefore illegitimate that's a credible position. It's not one I'd agree with but it is logically consistent, at least.

I mean, if you think public referenda are always wrong and therefore illegitimate that's a credible position.

Personally I am not a fan of referenda. And certainly where constitutions are explicitly designed to work without them, they're not helpful.

Never say never. However on the singular experience of the 2016 referendum we should never have one again. We've shown as a country we can't handle them.

That's interesting. Did you make the same argument in 1975, I wonder? I couldn't for the simple reason that I wasn't alive (the same may or may not apply to you)

Yay! More winning!

https://inews.co.uk/news/illegal-meat-entering-uk-takeaway-2977786?s=09

Pies for Sale:

"Meat" £2.50 * * 😬
"Named Meat" £4.00 😋

Gotta watch 'em.

I've only got £3?

"We hold all the cards"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68726852

When I get bored of my real work I may go back to filling in groupage C88s

world-class border facilities

I don't remember reading that on the side of a bus

I notice that nowhere does it quantify what size a consignment is? Honestly though, brilliant news (!) As the articles say UK exporters have been paying the charges in the opposite direction for 3 years.

Foreign importers Pay = Brexit Win (Klaxxon time)

From the article -

"Britain imports 22% of its beef, 21% of its sheep meat and 49% of its pork, and relies on the EU for the bulk of those imports, the BMPA said." yep, there's your problem, right there, raise your own and/or import from elsewhere.