Brexit mega thread part 13: All eyes on Ireland

[SerendipityJane]

With the Windsor framework up & running, and the DUP having a "you could set your calendar by it" hissy fit, but Irish unification refusing to keep it's head down, what next in the long running sage of UK vs. the real world ?

Hastings MP who campaigned for Brexit has joined calls to ease the travel ban on most EU school groups with ID cards.

Sally-Ann Hart's constituency has seen a collapse in EU school groups.
She says it is vital that barriers to inbound tourism are removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/brexit-school-group-tourism-b2551093.html#

I have little time for GlobeTrotter2000's "arguements" but ask him/her to answer the question for themselves

So, why are people (remainers) making the arguments: [followed by an old list]

Why don't we see your list of Brexit achievements?

Apropos of that - why are leading figures in the Leave campaign - Gove, Leasdom, and Redwood, to name 3, standing down at the next election? If Brexit had been such a sterling success would they not have been out there trumpetting how well it was going?

So the QT audience talked about issues which concern them most now. They were the same issues which most concerned them before the Leave campaigners whipped up hatred of the EU. It suited Westminster Governments to blame the EU for their own failings. But notice the first item for QT is the NHS. When people voted to come out of the EU the promise was that they would see more money for the NHS, it would not have been that they wanted that exact sum of money spent on it. Many would have seen that it was underfunded and falling apart. Now, eight years on from the vote and four years on from actually leaving, their perception is that it's falling apart even more. Now GlobeTrotter2000 you will probably come along and tell me that £xx was spent on the NHS in 2015 and now it's £xx+++, but that argument does not satisfy. People need to think that the NHS is in a better state now than it was a decade ago, and as you make the point - people do not think that.

@Peregrina Why don't we see your list of Brexit achievements?

Again, you need to look at the timeline and other World events.

23 June 2016

The UK votes to leave the EU

29 March 2017

UK lawmakers trigger EU Article 50. So, by 29 March 2019, the UK should have left the EU with or without a withdrawal agreement in accordance with Article 50. This did not happen as remain MP's wanted to ignore the referendum result.

31 January 2020

The UK leave the EU with a transition period to 31 December 2020.

March 2020

COVID begins to take hold of the World. So, governments around the World are forced to shelve any prior plans they may have had and give priority to protect their citizens from COVID.

The UK spent Approx. 400 Billion. The World in total spent US$ 10 Trillion. Approx. 10% of World GDP.

Global spending on health: Coping with the pandemic (who.int)

February 2022

COVID had began to subside and Russia invades the Ukraine. This causes World energy prices to soar. So, again governments around the World gave priority to their citizens by helping with energy costs.

The UK spent 100 Billion. The Word in total spent US$ 7 Trillion

Fossil Fuel Subsidies Surged to Record $7 Trillion (imf.org)

So the QT audience talked about issues which concern them most now.

Correct. Nether Brexit nor rejoining the EU was mentioned at all by either the audience or the panelists representing; Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats.

Now, eight years on from the vote and four years on from actually leaving, their perception is that it's falling apart even more

Yes. Explanation is simple. The same money can't be spent twice. So, the 400 Billion for COVID is 400 Billion less that could have been spent on the NHS. Likewise the 100 Billion spent on energy subsidies is 100 Billion less that could have been spent on the NHS.

So, Brexit has been sidelined as UK government and others around the World have prioritized tackling the more immediate concerns of their citizens.

Do you think the average person/family around the World would prefer their governments spent time on securing trade deals or helping with the immediate issues which are affecting them now?

The EU claims to be the largest trading bloc in the World, but poverty is increasing due to; pandemics, conflicts and climate change.

Are; pandemics, conflicts and climate change all attributable to Brexit? I would say not.

Are; pandemics, conflicts and climate change all attributable to Brexit? I would say not.

You try to pretend that they only affected the UK of course.

Oh come on, we all know that Brexit would have been a great success if it wasn't for.......... fill in word of choice

So no list of achievements then? Colour me shocked...

29 March 2017

UK lawmakers trigger EU Article 50. So, by 29 March 2019, the UK should have left the EU with or without a withdrawal agreement in accordance with Article 50. This did not happen as remain MP's wanted to ignore the referendum result.

Which is of course nonsense because Within 2 years of triggering Article 50 it was the duty of the UK Government to inform the EU of EXACTLY which of the hundreds of thousands of agreements and treaties would be changed AND for the new legally binding alternatives would be implemented. They took over 45 years to write and develop so the concept that they could be rewritten in a practical manner is complete and total nonsense. Iceland (the country) took around 7 years to negotiate fishing trade deals with others under WTO rules and the UK has thousands of trade agreements that will need to be rewritten or evaluated due to Brexit. 'Rollover deals' are essentially all the UK can manage during the lifetime of leave voters. Globe should run through the Leave the EU documentation from the EP website LINE by LINE and explain how each and every trade arrangement must be reevaluated and rewritten to 'achieve Brexoit' because according to leave voters they new exactly what they were voting for so obviopusly understand it fully (along with all possible repercusssions).
Why is globe seemingly alone in defending the gross stupidity of Brexit? Is it because they have NO workable answers simply a bunch of pathetiç excuses.

She can fuck off.

Isn't it amazing that when you demand 'independence' (like the UK leaving the EU) that Leave voters have no idea that it actually means that whatever 'shit' is going down it is up to YOU Personally to sort it all out and that by insulting others in the process of this independence the 'others' will feel NO inclination to assist you. As the Tories have been deregulating and selling off the 'family silver' for many decades there is less resiliance within the UK to weather the storm that is coming globally. The UK is gone: Oh dear, never mind, so many were not team players anyway so you won't really be missed enough to inspire help from outside now. I am more concerned for the folks in New Caledonia than the UK now as some seem top be falling for the simplistic 'independence would be better speeches without really appreciating it is only a small island 14,000km from France so heavily dependent on the French Government.

Seconded

The bots and trolls supporting Brexit
seem not to be heard by dozens of "run for the hills" tory MPs

@Peregrina You try to pretend that they only affected the UK of course

Wrong. They affected the entire world. Hence trade deals were put at the bottom of the list for everyone.

@IItisymoi Which is of course nonsense because Within 2 years of triggering Article 50 it was the duty of the UK Government to inform the EU of EXACTLY which of the hundreds of thousands of agreements and treaties would be changed AND for the new legally binding alternatives would be implemented.

Article 50 (signed by all EU members in 2009) stated there is a 2 year period to agree a deal. If no deal is agreed, then the member who voted to leave shall leave without a deal.

Globe should run through the Leave the EU documentation from the EP website LINE by LINE and explain how each and every trade arrangement must be reevaluated and rewritten to 'achieve Brexoit.

The word Globe should be changed to David Cameron. Never forget that it was Cameron who made the offer to leave or remain in the EU. Therefore it was his duty to have a plan for leave to be consistent with his statement:

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide.

For example, my local Honda dealer offers an entire range of models. I choose a CRV. The dealer is then obliged to provide a CRV. The dealer is not entitled to say

You picked the wrong one. So, I am not going to deliver.

Likewise, when I selected the CRV I did not dismantle it to check for regulatory compliance. That is the duty of the person who offered the CRV.

because according to leave voters they new exactly what they were voting for so obviopusly understand it fully (along with all possible repercusssions).

The ballot paper had two choices. Leave of remain. Possible downsides were presented in the booklet sent to each household in the UK and presented in the press an media by remain supporters.

Why is globe seemingly alone in defending the gross stupidity of Brexit? Is it because they have NO workable answers simply a bunch of pathetiç excuses.

If Brexit is considered wrong, why did the 16.1 milion who voted remain in 2016 not vote for the Liberal Democrats in the 2019 general election? Had they done so, this thread would not exist.

@DuncinToffee

The UK left the EU 31 January 2020 with a transition period to 31 December 2020. So, it was not until 1 January 2021 that the UK was able to enter in discussions on trade deals with the EU or anyone else in the World.

Due to events such as COVID and conflicts governments around the world prioritized tackling what was effecting their citizens at that time and moment. This was to minimize the possibility of death from COVID and being able to afford energy bills.

It's estimated that the World spent Approx. 10% of global GDP on COVID and another 7% on energy subsidies. So, in the space of 4 years 17% of global GDP was spent on trying to keep people alive.

Trade deals are a long term exercise and typically take 7 years to finalize. Since 1 January 2021 the UK has signed three new deals with; Australia, New Zealand and the CPATP. Also two digital trade deals with Singapore and Ukraine have been signed. The link is:

Progress on UK free trade agreement negotiations - House of Commons Library (parliament.uk)

So, in less than 4 year, 5 deals have been made. A much shorter timeframe than the usual 7 years. I would say that is a good achievement considering that the UK government has had to tackle COVID and rising energy prices at the same time.

@Talkinpeace The bots and trolls supporting Brexit
seem not to be heard by dozens of "run for the hills" tory MPs

If Labour win the election on 4 July 2024, will the following happen:

Brexit will be revoked on the same day?

The EU will agree that the time from 23 June 2016 to 4 July 2024 will be forgotten.

The UK will resume it's EU membership at is existed on 22 June 2016?

I'm still not sure who this bot is aiming their reams of drivel at. Anyone who hasn't realised that Brexit is a load of shit is going to be far to stupid to want to read through acres of irrelevant nonsense...

I had to do a lot of scrolling today to get past his posts.

Don't have a clue what he was wittering about as I don't read his posts Some of you have more energy and resilience than me - but from what I can deduce from your replies, they weren't/aren't worth reading and just continue to demonstrate the paucity of his arguments such as they are

I scrolled past too, was hoping for another word salad picture from Hannibal

Does anyone else get the feeling that these posts are written by ChatGPT? They've got all the research, but absolutely no sense of, well, anything...

Wouldn't know as I don't read them.

Despite the fact that he claims also to have worked at ICI so has a tenuous link with me

@HannibalHeyes Anyone who hasn't realised that Brexit is a load of shit.

Maybe the number of people who think Brexit is bad is not a many as you want to think?

Can you prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the majority of the electorate want Brexit to be reversed?

For clarity, polls conducted on 2,000 people do not constitute evidence as they’ve been proved to be wrong in the past. So, I would say that the only way to know if the majority no longer want Brexit is one of the following:

Another referendum which asks the question:

Shall the UK apply to rejoin the EU?

If there are more votes to rejoin, the Government is obligated to trigger Article 49.

or,

A party who has in their manifesto they will trigger Article 49 if elected wins a general election.

If remain supporters think the current parties are not making the case for the UK to rejoin correctly, or that they are not making the case at all, what prevents them from forming their own party?

Both Anna Soubry and Nigel Farage formed their own parties in 2019 as they thought the Brexit vote was not being managed correctly. Jeremy Corbyn has put himself forward for the general election on 4 July 2024.

So, what’s stopping any one of the following posters forming their own rejoin party

HannibalHeyes
Peregrina
KenDodd
Jason118
PrettyBird
Talkinpeace
DuncinToffee
Serendipityjane

How do you know we haven't formed our own parties, or are about to put ourselves up for election?

And there we go with another irrelevant load of drivel that we just scroll on past...

I guess we're back to this explanation...

If you don't read it, it doesn't exhaust you #justsayin