Can someone give me one benefit of Brexit.

[Tulipsroses]

It's going to be 4 years since we withdrew our membership in European Union. Apart from the passport colour (some people might prefer) can anyone name one positive change which happened since then.

"Then along comes covid. Current government pumps millions into the NHS, almost an open cheque book from what I hear."

Those billions (not millions), all went to the likes of Dido Harding and Michelle Mone. Not to mention Sunak's vaccine deal with Moderna, a company in which he just happened to have £500 million invested in.

But it was all put on the NHS budget, so they can pretend they've paid the £350 million, even though virtually none of it was actually invested in genuine healthcare.

Yeah, I suspected billions, but wanted to play safe.

You endorse my point admirably.👍

Brexit has enabled the UK to pursue trade agreements independently, allowing for a more flexible and responsive approach to international trade. @Tulipsroses

Funny how every single trade agreement we've signed since Brexshit has either been a copy & paste of the old one, or has been an incredibly awful one that has undermined our own producers.

Muppet...

That's a bit like saying "I'm now allowed to stick my head in the oven" though.

The UK lost its nearest trading market, and wiped nearly £100bn of exports annually. Then had to renegotiate deals with countries further away, that it already had deals with as part of the EU, and with the added bonus that it now has a much smaller hand to negotiate with.

I guess proved by the runaway success it is having making deals with said other countries 🤦‍♂️

what happened to engaging in academic discourse without the name calling ?

This is Mnet, a SM site on the internet, not academic discourse.

Quite. And to be fair the pp being complained about her seems to have done more actual research than the pp complaining 😆

Indeed. I think one's own arguments are considerably diminished when one descends to name calling (apart from when it's assumed at the government, they are fair game 😉). As for academic discourse, I agree that this is social media, but I do think it's a good platform for sensible debate and sharing of knowledge.

I just think it should be done with at least a hint of repartee.

If you want academic discourse, then maybe you shouldn't post such incredibly arrant nonsense?

Bother, I thought this was some kind of learned society.

What was arrogant or nonsense? I haven't said anything that isn't factual, and I've tried not to be provocative, rude or insulting. I concede my sense of humour may not be everyone's cup of tea, but such is life.

Also, I said I like sensible debate and knowledge sharing. Requests for academic discourse didn't pass my keyboard.

You are guilty of using that most heinous of slurs - Muppet. Go hang your head in shame.

Look again, that wasn't me. It was @HannibalHeyes

Hard to keep up!

What is considered best for the country is actually determined by the government, not the voters.

They are expected to use their judgement to do what they consider best for for the country

Disagree. The parties present what they think is best for the country. Those who are interested listen to the various parties and select which they think is best.

In the case of EU membership, it was the Consertavive Party who thought is was best to allow people to choose. So a referendum was held on 23 June 2016. More people selected Leave than Remain. Hence the Goverment was obliged to deliver.

Never forget there was a referendum in 1975 which asked the same question as in 2016. The result was to remain and the Goverment accepted the result. Hence the Goverment was obliged to accept the result of 2016.

If Governments can choose when votes can be ignored, Democracy had failed.

Personally, I wouldn't. I think we would be actually be much better governed if we allowed politicians to change course if whatever they were doing just clearly wasn't working and would be unlikely to start working.

Votes had the option to cancel Brexit in the 2019 GE by voting for the LibDems who policy was to revoke. Labour was also a remain party. Both Labour and the LibDems lost. If that does not prove that voters did not want to Brexit to be cancelled, what does?

They then came back to the people and said we're not doing it, it'll be too damaging to the country. Sensible Swiss!

That's called the benefit of hindsight.

The outcome of Brexit can only be known after it happened as there is no hindsight to look back on.

The Government is currently in a mess over its Rwanda policy. It wasn't a Manifesto

Its part of the Goverment promises to reduce immgration.

I would say that Brexit has not yet had a chance to get started. Look at the timeline:

Jan 2020 - UK leaves the EU with a tranisition period to 31 Dec 2020

March 2020 - COVID begins to take a grip worldwide

Beginning of 2022 - COVID starts to come under control. UK spent a estimated 400 Billion

February 2020 - Russia invades Ukraine and world energy prices soar. Developed countries spend billions to support the Ukraine

October 2023 - Hamas/Israel conflcit begins.

Can you clarify for me which of Labour or the LibDems were the elected party in 2019?

None. Both Labour and LibDems flopped in 2019. Most likely as people expect votes to be honoured.

My parents voted Labour all their lives until the 2019 GE. They voted Conservative in 2019 as they objected to Tony Blair's comment:

It's too complicated for the man in the street to understand.

However, in 1975 (Labour in Goverment) it was not too complicated?

I would say that Brexit has not yet had a chance to get started. Look at the timeline:

TBF Rees Moog did say 50 years

@WorldGlobeTrotter did your parents vote leave too? That's tragic that they voted Tory then.

Omg. The nhs would have received more funding and schools with a 2019 labour govt.

@WorldGlobeTrotterdid your parents vote leave too? That's tragic that they voted Tory then.

They voted remain in the 1975 referendum. Their logic was that as UK was already in the EU, why go though the hassle of leaving?

They voted leave in the 2016 referendum as they thought funding poorer countries did not make sense. Both spent their lives working in the NHS and thought it had become a charity shop for health care tourists.

They voted labour in 2017 by tradition for the area they reside.

They voted Conservative in 2019 in objection to Labour's U-Turn on Brexit

They don;t know who to vote for in the next GE.

TBF Rees Moog did say 50 years

I remember that too. 50 years to feel the full beneifts of Brexit. Sound about right after being in the EU for 48 years.

I remember that too. 50 years to feel the full beneifts of Brexit. Sound about right after being in the EU for 48 years.

Sounds like a strong argument to me for staying in the EU for a further 48 years in order to continue to reap the benefits. Then we could have left with 2 of Rees-Moggs 50 years left and not been so messed about.

Sounds like a strong argument to me for staying in the EU for a further 48 years in order to continue to reap the benefits

Labour seem to be favourites to win the next GE, but have ruled out a return to the EU. Why is that?

I suggest you phone Sir Keir and ask him.

I suspect because the UK would not be able to get the same favourable terms it had before it left, so there would be little point in rejoining. One of the terms would be to move to the Euro which would be a show stopper right there. I think they have also realised that, after this much time / Covid / Ukraine / etc. We just need to knuckle down and make the best of what we have. It would be a far better use of energy.

I'd like to comment on one of your earlier assertions that Labour were a remain party of the 2019 GE. My recollection is that they weren't which is one of the reasons they lost. Corbyn had been a eurosceptic forever. I think the flip-flop you refer to was a softening of this approach, but I don't think he ever went as far as to say that, if elected, he would support remaining. Maybe he did at the last minute and I missed it. That wouldn't surprise me as he was an odious little man. I wonder if he still considers Hamas and Hezbollah to be friends?

Also, I sympathise with your parents. I too do not know who to vote for in the next GE. I have never been a party person, but evaluate who I believe will deliver what is (IMHO) the best for me and the best for the country. As I said before, in this instance it's like choosing between syphilis and gonorrhoea. Putting Brexit to one side, I don't have any faith in the Conservative party to deliver a pizza (as one PP put it so eloquently before). I don't trust them to set any policy that isn't self serving, or to be able to administer it from the public purse.

Starmer has proved to be a lot weaker than I had hoped for. From my perspective, he just tells the Conservatives that they're doing it wrong, but I haven't seen much proposed about what he plans to do right should he be elected. In the event that the Labour party come out with a majority at the next election, it will be more because the Conservatives lost than that Labour won.

It's a shocking state of affairs. Whatever we thought about the era of Margaret Thatcher (bear with me), at least that time period was full of heavy hitters on both sides. There was a clear line of competent politicians in the wings waiting to take over, and a strong opposition to hold Maggie to account. Now, they have to drag the barrel and bring Cameron back in. Not because he is good, but because there is literally nobody else.

My money is on there being a very low turnout for it, due to despondency, so it could actually be anyone's game.

I think there's a huge gap between lots of people observing that Brexit has been a shitshow, and any real movement in bulk for rejoining the EU. I cringe when I see tweets etc making that link on zero evidence.

I've no doubt the EU would have us back on their own terms, but I think there would be voices saying correctly that the UK as a nation will always be fairly uncommitted to the European project and that we're not worth the trouble. That did make us a pain to be around at times. Look at the repeated election of Farage as an MEP, top of the list. Embarrassing but also telling.