Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

Brexit mega thread part 11: is fucktastrophy a word?

1000 replies

mirages08 · 25/05/2023 12:11

Part 11 of this mega thread

Couldn't see a new one?

Hope you don't mind a newbie starting it!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
205
Peregrina · 31/07/2023 18:02

Reading the above "New Brexit slapdown...." it occurs to me that Starmer (still bleating about making Brexit work) could if he got into power make it clear that negotiations will be via the EU. Instead of the silly Brexiters nonsense of pretending that the EU doesn't exist and that they can negotiate with 27 other countries.

SerendipityJane · 31/07/2023 19:38

Peregrina · 31/07/2023 18:02

Reading the above "New Brexit slapdown...." it occurs to me that Starmer (still bleating about making Brexit work) could if he got into power make it clear that negotiations will be via the EU. Instead of the silly Brexiters nonsense of pretending that the EU doesn't exist and that they can negotiate with 27 other countries.

The requirement to negotiate via the commission was in place before the midnight on the 23rd June 2016. It was basically the quickest and easiest way to kneecap any chance there was of Brexit working. If there had been any grown ups in the UK at the time, it would have been flagged up and become the stumbling block.

I really CBA, but there are plenty of sources - not all in English - where various EU commentators expressed amazement at how the UK gave up any hope of a deal before they sat down.

Anyway, to return to the here and now, that's plan Sunak fucked then. Not that it was much of a plan, which is appropriate enough, since it came from not much of a man.

HannibalHeyes · 31/07/2023 20:26

From the above article;

A government spokesperson said the target operating model “will transform the UK’s border controls” and create “a new world-class system to provide protection from security and biosecurity threats”.

So that's nice. It's not as though businesses have only 3 months to prepare or anything. And it's not as though they actually have any knowledge of what this "world-class" system is going to be...

Peregrina · 31/07/2023 22:38

I was not making excuses for Starmer but if he did get into power things like immediately rejoining Horizon, making it easier for musicians to travel, allowing EU people (especially children) into the country on Identity cards instead of needing full blown passports, would be actions which mitigate some of the disaster of Brexit. Instead the present excuse of a Government is full of people who don't like the EU and want to wreck it for everyone else. (While running off to get their own Irish/German/French citizenship if eligible.)

RafaistheKingofClay · 31/07/2023 23:53

SerendipityJane · 31/07/2023 17:20

Predicted - by me - in these very threads. This is getting embarrassing now. It's almost as if no one negotiating for the UK knew was a trading bloc was.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html

They are all a bunch of fucking idiots. What the fuck did they think was going to happen? It’s the whole point of a trading bloc and why everyone else is in it.

So far we’re the only people mad enough to leave it. Did they not notice that nobody followed us out?

DrBlackbird · 01/08/2023 07:09

HannibalHeyes · 31/07/2023 20:26

From the above article;

A government spokesperson said the target operating model “will transform the UK’s border controls” and create “a new world-class system to provide protection from security and biosecurity threats”.

So that's nice. It's not as though businesses have only 3 months to prepare or anything. And it's not as though they actually have any knowledge of what this "world-class" system is going to be...

Surely someone banned the phrase ‘world-class’ after it was beaten to death and shown to be a load of utter nonsense by Johnson?!

SerendipityJane · 01/08/2023 07:29

Peregrina · 31/07/2023 22:38

I was not making excuses for Starmer but if he did get into power things like immediately rejoining Horizon, making it easier for musicians to travel, allowing EU people (especially children) into the country on Identity cards instead of needing full blown passports, would be actions which mitigate some of the disaster of Brexit. Instead the present excuse of a Government is full of people who don't like the EU and want to wreck it for everyone else. (While running off to get their own Irish/German/French citizenship if eligible.)

It is in the interests of our current government to make:

rejoining horizon;
easier travel for musicians;
EU citizens entry to the UK

as difficult as possible to avoid the optics of it being sorted out before the bunting comes down by a halfway competent change of administration.

Peregrina · 01/08/2023 07:54

I read this morning that the UK Government has decided to let firms use the EU CE mark instead of the UKCA mark.
Kevin Hollinrake, the business minister said: “By extending CE-marking use across the UK, firms can focus their time and money on creating jobs and growing the economy.”

Well done Brexiters - by going back to the situation before Brexit we can now be rule takers instead of being party to the rule making. Take back control.

SerendipityJane · 01/08/2023 08:58

Peregrina · 01/08/2023 07:54

I read this morning that the UK Government has decided to let firms use the EU CE mark instead of the UKCA mark.
Kevin Hollinrake, the business minister said: “By extending CE-marking use across the UK, firms can focus their time and money on creating jobs and growing the economy.”

Well done Brexiters - by going back to the situation before Brexit we can now be rule takers instead of being party to the rule making. Take back control.

Meet the new boss:
Same as the old boss

It says a lot about Roger Daltrey that he sang that for nearly half a century without actually ever understanding it .....

HannibalHeyes · 02/08/2023 22:21

And in yet more "government realises Brexshit is a total catastrophuq for the UK" news...

Brexit mega thread part 11: is fucktastrophy a word?
SerendipityJane · 03/08/2023 07:39

So the EU will check UK food - making it expensive in the EU

The UK won't check EU food, making it cheap in the UK

Sounds like a win to me. Our farmers will be competing with cheaper food from Europe while they can't sell into Europe so can only sell to the UK where prices are low because of unchecked EU food.

Have I missed anything ?

Are we allowed to call the people who voted for this intellectually challenged numpties yet ?

Of course UK farmers should be more ambitious. What with CCTP ( ore whatever, it would cost me more to look it up that it will ever make for the UK) aren't they supposed to be exporting to South East Asia ? Coz I hear turnips are a big part of Malay cuisine. I know. A brexiteer told me. Well actually they sad "google it" but then brexiteers seem to be busy people these days. . I guess unicorn herding takes some effort. Probably because you have to find the fuckers first.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 03/08/2023 08:23

Yes, you missed the bit where the rest of the world starts complaining to the WTO as the UK is impising checks on them but not on the EU.

SerendipityJane · 03/08/2023 08:46

MrTiddlesTheCat · 03/08/2023 08:23

Yes, you missed the bit where the rest of the world starts complaining to the WTO as the UK is impising checks on them but not on the EU.

I didn't miss it. Merely omitted it as it is of little to no interest to Brexiteers. Most of whom are surprised to shocked to discover there is a "rest of the world".

And if that seems a cheap dig, remember our foreign secretary who didn't know Dover was a port.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 03/08/2023 10:05

They all seem to know where the Cayman Islands are.

Kucinghitam · 03/08/2023 10:11

Coz I hear turnips are a big part of Malay cuisine. I know. A brexiteer told me. Well actually they sad "google it" but then brexiteers seem to be busy people these days

Seriously? That's bloody hilarious! Grin

HannibalHeyes · 03/08/2023 12:18

It's brilliant isn't it. We're "taking back control of are boarders", as the Brexshiteers all demanded, by, er, not taking back any control of our borders.

You couldn't make it up...

TheABC · 03/08/2023 22:10

They know it's a mess.
We know it's a mess.
They know that we know.
They hope it will shuffle off quietly into a corner to die whilst they arrange their post-political careers.
We know it's a zombie that has eaten their brains.

HannibalHeyes · 04/08/2023 12:43

A good post here on what a Rejoin campaign is going to look like.

Edwin Hayward@edwinhaywardWhy a future Rejoin campaign will be nothing like 2016

Brexit shifted the landscape. Life after the EU is now our new reality. Any future campaign to rejoin will be a whole different beast from 2016.

(Apologies for the length. Please expand to read on. Thanks.)

  1. Brexit: The New Normal
Defending the status quo is tough, especially to those who crave change.

Should the UK vote to stay out, the only thing that would change would be the volume of voices calling for rejoin.

But the economy would remain stagnant, and the EU would still be harder to get to for travel or for work.

Stay Out has nothing to commend it on its own terms, other than that it preserves Brexit.

  1. No More Shadows in the Dark
We now know what Brexit is like. We've experienced it stripped of the false promises and lies. Any future Rejoin/Stay Out showdown would pit two defined realities against each other, rather than reality against a fantasy. (Naturally, the terms of rejoining the EU would have to be negotiated before a public vote could be organised.)

The Stay Out camp can no longer peddle an all-things-to-all-people vision of Brexit like Leave did in 2016, because Brexit is already all around us.

  1. The Lesser of Two Evils: EU membership
Opinions on EU membership diverge wildly. But even many of its critics have come to realise through lived experience that Brexit represents an even more bitter pill. For them, though they may have little love for the EU, it will still seem less-worse than Brexit.
  1. Corporate Warriors
Businesses grappling with the complexities of Brexit are unlikely to sit on the sidelines if there's a chance to return to something approximating our pre-EU departure ease. The allure of "Rejoin" is just too potent not to speak up. Despite the potential backlash from taking a political stance, many will choose to voice their support.
  1. The Usual Suspects Are... Suspect
Who would lead the "Stay Out" brigade? The same faces that championed Brexit but failed to deliver? (Even the most die-hard Brexit believers feel short-changed by reality, which is why polls show a much larger opposition to our current Brexit than to the idea of Brexit itself.)

What's Jacob Rees-Mogg's pitch going to be? "Just four more decades until Brexit pays off. Hang in there!"

Not to mention that voters have also experienced first-hand how some of Brexit's prominent supporters used the vote to feather their own nests.

  1. No More Proxy Wars
In 2016, some saw the referendum as an opportunity to punish the Tories for austerity cuts. For many, that sentiment faded very quickly, replaced the morning after by "Did we really do that?"
  1. The Youth Surge
Younger voters, faced with a unique chance to reclaim everything they believe was unjustly taken from their generation, will rally. The current 86/14 split in favour of Rejoin among younger voters is likely to widen as Brexit continues to impact their lives.
  1. The Stakes Have Been Raised
Complacency, in the form of "my vote doesn't matter" or "remain will win anyway", was shattered by the result of the 2016 referendum. The second time around, there will be no underestimating the importance of every single vote.
  1. Things Will Have Gone from Bad to Worse
Brexit's impacts will continue to unfold, from new travel complexities like ETIAS/EES, to carbon trading rules that will increase the cost of UK exports to the EU. By the time a Rejoin vote is on the table, the UK's predictament will sadly be even more dire than it is in 2023.
  1. The Fog of Misdirection Will Clear
    The Tories have managed to obfuscate many of Brexit's impacts by conflating them with the pandemic and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. With any luck, these depressing distractions will be history by the time a Rejoin campaign begins, and Brexit's true aftereffects will be readily apparent.

  2. Failure Across the Political Spectrum
    Labour can't Make Brexit Work. It may tinker around the edges, but without rejoining the Single Market at a minimum, nothing significant will change. So the public will know that the Tories can't polish the Brexit turd - and neither can Labour.

  3. Shattered Brexit Illusions
    The grand narrative of 2016's Brexit referendum - sovereignty, prosperity, independence - has been tested by reality and found wanting. A Rejoin campaign could exploit the gulf between the promises of yesteryear and the lived experience of today, highlighting everything that has gone wrong.

  4. The Buried Treasures of EU Membership
    Arguments for and against membership of the EU so often seem to boil down to the economic. But EU membership carries with it hundreds of other benefits that can't be strictly measured in pounds and pence, yet which have real value. A Rejoin campaign could dig much deeper into what EU membership really means - as well as reminding people of the merits of things like freedom of movement, participation in the Single Market, and a renewed influence over EU policies.

  5. The Playbook, Revised
    A Rejoin campaign has the advantage of hindsight. Leave's victory in 2016 signposts the way to craft more effective strategies and engage voters better, and to tackle criticisms and concerns more robustly. We are also much more attuned to the potential for dirty tricks.

  6. A Neutered Press
    Brexit hasn't covered itself in glory. Even the most fervent pro-Brexit RW outlets have struggled mightily to find the positives in Brexit, tapping the same tired tropes again and again and again. There is little they can say to step sentiment in favour of staying out up to a new level.

  7. The Global Chessboard
    The world of 2016 is not the world of today. Global challenges, from COVID to climate change to geopolitical shifts, have underscored the value of international cooperation. A Rejoin campaign could use these shifts to argue the merits of being part of a larger and stronger alliance.

  8. The EU that Won't Stand Still
    The EU we would be rejoining in the late 2020s or early 2030s isn't the EU of 2016. Many aspects of its functioning will be far more integrated, from its unified patent system to its Digital Decade initiative that aims to transform the experience of businesses and citizens.

So a Rejoin campaign wouldn't only have the merits of EU membership circa 2016 to draw upon, but all the improvements that have come about since then.

In Conclusion
Any future Rejoin campaign is not a rehash of 2016. It's a new game, with new rules. Brexit is the present, but it doesn't have to be the future.

With fresh voices, shifting public sentiment, and the stark realities of Brexit laid bare, the path to rejoining the EU is a journey of its own.

This isn't about rekindling old battles—it's about recalibrating for the future. After all, we're not just talking about a political shift. We're talking about reclaiming opportunities, mending bridges, and charting a new course for the UK.

Buckle up. It's going to be a wild ride.

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward

Jackydaytona · 04/08/2023 16:12

Sotd 4160tuesdays complicated Shadows

Love the sandalwood note in this one 😍

HannibalHeyes · 04/08/2023 16:42

???

Jackydaytona · 04/08/2023 21:17

HannibalHeyes · 04/08/2023 16:42

???

Omg

Wrong thread

Sorry!

Jackydaytona · 07/08/2023 12:33

I'm currently listening to Marina Hydes' book on audible atm

It covers her columns from 2018-2022

It's just so horrifying to hear it all over again...

And almost unbelievable tbh :(

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.