to still be angry about Brexit?

[mrsmootoo]

I've mentioned this before and got shot down - 'move on', 'we won, you lost', 'red wall was justified', 'democracy' (although as Brexiter David Davis said, democracies can change their minds) etc etc. Anyway, if anything I am even more angry now than in 2016! Seeing queues at Dover/airports etc (I know not only down to Brexit, but it makes it worse) just reinforced it. I'm not going to rehash all the reasons here, but am just interested in whether other people are still as furious as I am. (And I do know it's not doing my stress levels any good!)

Potato farmer , Serbian wife headbanger Andrew Bridgen has gone full tonto anti-vax now and lost the whip. He used to be the ERG Chair - nut jobs the lot of them. How the hell did they get to dictate goverment policy and wreck the country. They need medical help not a platform.

He knows where the votes are and would rather not lose them

Shame but there you go. 13 years out, and not going to take chances

Yeh I’m not usually a this could be very bad type but this sounds plausible, and hopefully avoidable

Yes this is what my partner says but even if you believe this, then he is sacrificing his beliefs for electoral gain, that may be the wise course of action (electorally) but for me, i would prefer someone to lead, rather than follow, makes his previous demands for a 2nd referendum etc seem insincere & hollow.

Its also dangerous because the Tories could easily change their stance on the EU, as they appear to be doing on NI Protocol, leaving Labour where exactly?

This isn't an impossibility either, polling is increasingly against Brexit atm both parties seem to be lagging public opinion, my money would be on the Cons changing their view first.

One thing age and bad haircuts have taught me is that wishing something won't happen, because of bad consequences has very little bearing on whether it does or not.

Having to point hat out on a thread about Brexit seems painfully ironic.

To be fair, the reverse is true. No amount of wishing for nice things seems to make them any more likely.

I agree with you on this though.

On the next post and wishing things I would put it another way. Being mindful of escalation factors is a good idea.

I’d say with much more information / expertise than mners have. As thoughtful as some may be on various things.

On the next post and wishing things I would put it another way. Being mindful of escalation factors is a good idea. [] I’d say with much more information / expertise than mners have. As thoughtful as some may be on various things.

We'll have to disagree, I feel. No matter how apocalyptic the outcome of something may be, it's relatively trivial to get people to work for it if you know how. Treating them like shit, letting their living standards drop (ideally with some deaths to boot) and then pointing over the horizon and saying "it's all their fault" is almost so cliched it's embarrassing. Even now you have the DUP (to return to Brexit) all pumped up for a return to the troubles.

I’ve lost you on this one. Are you referring to China?

I’m getting the sense you think bad things are inevitable.. correct me if not the case

I can’t agree I’ve seen so many cases on mn alone when worst case has been a cert in some eyes and many times just didn’t happen.

I’m usually quite positive but on China I’d try to get through it without pushing them towards Russia though. But as I put that takes expertise.

I’m getting the sense you think bad things are inevitable. correct me if not the case

No, it's a fair summary. Backed by all of history. The only real question is what bad things and when - as the Bard said "Aye, there's the rub".

Personally I can't see the current Ukrainian situation being "it". In fact, wherever "it" happens, it will probably be where it was least expected. Much as no one imagined in 1918 that Germany would be at it again in 1936 (to pick a date at semi random).

Whether I let that affect my usual sunny disposition and general sweetness and light demeanour is of course up to me.

Trouble is, we only ever usually know about the the things that result in bad stuff happening, things that stop the bad stuff...?

Berlin wall built, 40 years or later ripped down, Cuban missile crisis...Russians in Eastern Europe? nothing is forever, even if ukraine was defeated by the soviets, may only be under their control for generation or two, very bad.. but in 200years no one will care... same with Brexit, it may last for my life time but my kids? doubtful.

tbf many people did argue that punishing Germany after WW1 was a bad idea, just as total humiliation of Russia in Ukraine would be stupid too.

Berlin wall built, 40 years or later ripped down,

I am still astounded that the wall has been fallen longer (34 years) than it stood (28 years)

Yes my timing was completely out but it still proves my point - Nothing is forever, it just seems that way when you are in it.

The current problems are due to the economy being shut for 2.5 years, not due to Brexit. Some people personally have benefited from the 2.5 years of freedoms taken away and other restrictions but many predictably lost out as their whole trade or industry sector closed or declined. A lot of media, entertaintment, service, events industry businesses went under. A lot of mums out of work now are those who lost their jobs due to their industries not being operational for 2.5 years - done to protect those with covid anxiety.
here is one simple example from the Remainer paper (and that I heard recently out of the mouth of someone who ran a taxi firm too, it's still a problem, even now). https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/nov/13/taxi-taxi-why-its-suddenly-getting-so-hard-to-find-a-cab

May be place the blame on those that clapped and was falling over themselves to hand over freedoms faster than the PMs and their "experts" farted.

Of course the UK was the only country to shut its economy for 2 - 3 years.

We're expected to have the worst economy in the G7 next year, according to the IMF...even worse than Russia, who've got a war and sanctions to deal with.
It's not just Brexit itself, it's the fact that in order to 'Get Brexit Done'. Johnson kicked out the more moderate Tories like Kenneth Clarke and composed his cabinet of Brexit headbangers like Truss and Rees Mogg, who are generally incapable. Truss almost tanked the economy on her own.
Dominic Raab, Matt Hancock, Suella Braverman..all promoted way above their ability and we seem to be stuck with them.

As I shall be, too

I had to visit Southampton today. Driving on the M3/M27, every 3rd vehicle used to be a container lorry, many delivering food to uk. Today there were very few coming or going. This cannot be a good thing. Hard Times are coming.

I was thinking this again today as we arrived in Spain and had to purchase the Vodafone roaming packages. It really is the gift that keeps on giving.

Yep! We had that on our holiday, really pisses me off.

We've had this too, once last year and a couple of times this year. Also several times for DD3 who is a student on her year abroad for university (plus the cost of visas etc., which were previously unnecessary because we had freedom of movement. 😠

The wheels are coming off fast now aren't they? Vauxhall, electric car batteries. The whole thing's a catastrophe.

It is a total pile of horse manure. -

Well when the PM is claiming cheaper sanitary towels and beer as the big Brexit wins then we know we’re properly fucked. In any case I can get cheaper sanitary towels and beer abroad. Does he not think realise some of us can travel abroad compare prices?

I believe that the UK had proposed to removed VAT from Sanitary towels, and that the EU was going to bring it in, but Brexit went and delayed its implementation. So it's disingenuous at best to claim that this is a brexit benefit.

I believe that reduced tariffs on beer were also possible within the EU.

One thing I've noticed about Leave voters, any absolutely indisputable Costa, such as this, Remain voters will blame of Brexit, leave voters will blame on Spain, punishing us or some other such nonsense. So all stuff like this, it's not going to make Leave voters rethink, it's just going to make them hate the EU even more.