Pigs culling - necessary part of transition

[LadyWithLapdog]

WTF Johnson and Brexit supporters. I’m not a raving vegan but this is nasty and indecent, this callous remark that killing animals for nothing is just to be expected. Shameful.

@bizboz

Even if you are in favour of the argument that cheap foreign labour perpetuates wage depression, then surely it is obvious that the answer is a long, slow transition to training up people in this country to do the relevant jobs (eg butchery) but still having workers from outside come in to do the job while there is a need.

I was listening to someone from the NFU talk about this on the radio a couple of weeks ago. Butchery is a skilled trade. There are not enough trained butchers in the UK and like other industries training has been slowed down during the pandemic. They said they have skilled butchers lines up from South America who can't come over here because of the language requirements of the new immigration process. They said that as an industry that has long been lacking in domestic butchers they are well used to dealing with the language barrier and it isn't an issue.

The spokesperson also said that culling UK stocks while filling the supply gap with cheaper imported pork which is often not raised to the same welfare standards will decimate the UK pork industry. I suppose then there won't be a problem with not being able to get butchers. That's probably the government's end goal anyway. It was always argued before Brexit that the end result would be the increase in food imports and the destruction of UK farming. Some farmers listened, some didn't.

I agree.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@DoubleTweenQueen,

What an unnecessarily rude and aggressive post.

People who think they understand but actually don’t are the most dangerous (financial collapse in 2008 ring a bell?).

I just know the limits of my understanding, unlike certain others who vastly overestimate their abilities and are happy to post on all manner of subjects.[/quote]
I was neither rude, nor aggressive :)
Feigning insult? Ok

People saying that a cull makes no differncd to the pigs are wrong.

I was listening to a pig farmer talk about this a couple of days ago. In the normal slaughter process, the pigs are stunned and then killed, one by one and out of sight of the other pigs. This is importanf as pigs are intelligent and will panic if they know what's happening.

That's not possible in the cull, the pigs are too big for this, so they will know what's coming, and be terrified. It is disgusting

I agree and find it disgusting and wasteful that this is happening to the pig industry.

And it's disgusting that our PM thinks it's a joke.

@wewereliars,

That is just not the case. They are gassed together (as they are social animals) by high concentration carbon dioxide , which is an aversive gas (I.e the pigs suffer).

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44709905.amp

Yes, That Vote was 5 years ago, and there has been a great deal of water under the bridge since then.

Two UK governments, two US presidents and one EU parliament one German assembly and one Italian parliament for a start.

What use is a link from 2018 telling us how in normal times pigs will be killed? Times are not normal. The foot and mouth outbreak saw pyres of animals killed to curtail the spread, but that was also an abnormal occasion and we don't normally see them.

@Peregrina

And it's disgusting that our PM thinks it's a joke.

Well you wouldn't let it spoil your holiday would you ?

@wewereliars

People saying that a cull makes no differncd to the pigs are wrong.

I was listening to a pig farmer talk about this a couple of days ago. In the normal slaughter process, the pigs are stunned and then killed, one by one and out of sight of the other pigs. This is importanf as pigs are intelligent and will panic if they know what's happening.

That's not possible in the cull, the pigs are too big for this, so they will know what's coming, and be terrified. It is disgusting

Overall though some people talk like at least if they die to end up on people's plates they had a purpose and their death was not in vain; but to the pig it matters not. They don't care when they die that it means someone can buy cheap parts of their body to clog their arteries with, ew.

@Peregrina,

Why are you just arguing for no reason?

My, post, as clearly signposted, was in reply to @wewereliars, who specifically stated:

'in the normal slaughter process, the pigs are stunned and then killed, one by one and out of sight of the other pigs. This is important as pigs are intelligent and will panic if they know what's happening.'

This is not true and they are normally killed (well stunned pre killing) by high concentration carbon dioxide.

I have noticed that few on this thread want to admit that, for the individual pigs, they will have a far better end of life IF they end up being killed by farmers on their farms rather than the normal process.

It kind of destroys a lot of the more emotive arguments.

It's a fucking disgrace tbh, whether you agree with Brexit or not (and not forgetting that it coinciding with Covid is not helping), you can't deny that the government should have been planning to ensure as normal a period of change as possible, and it's looking increasingly like they've done fuck all.

Useless incompetent tossers, the lot of them.

Having to import pork from the EU after culling thousands of pigs, we'll be a laughing stock.

Boris is a Cunt!

Sorry, rant over...

ReluctantPhoenix - so you are now setting yourself up as the thread police. I will post if I wish.

@Peregrina,

Ummm,

Pots, kettles….black?!

@Peregrina

ReluctantPhoenix - so you are now setting yourself up as the thread police. I will post if I wish.

TRP is a rabbit-hole merchant prolific on any thread that may have any inkling of a mention of Brexit or Boris Johnson.

But then, you know that :)

@DoubleTweenQueen,

I think if you search my posting history, which is a service freely available on this site, you will find it just as variable as yours, and far more variable than @Peregrina, who sees it as her task to patrol Brexit threads and say how awful it is to be in the UK at the current time and how Brexit has been a disaster.

But, somehow, posting history seems to matter less to you when the poster's views and yours are at idem.

I wonder if there is space in the vernacular for "Boris Bangers" to replace "porkies" as absolute whoppers of the first order.

Or "Boris' bacon" ?

Tory trotters ?
This is - of course - a Conservative cull so "Conservative crackling" ?

Sunak Spare RIbs ?

Oh dear ReluctantPhoenix seems rather rattled and is now telling me off for predominantly posting on Brexit threads, although I have in the past 10 years posted on many other threads. It happens to be primarily where my interest in MN currently lies.

I am not going to worship at the altar of Brexit, or praise Boris Johnson, who I think is an absolute disgrace to the Tory Party and I am quite happy to repeat that statement as often as I wish.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@DoubleTweenQueen,

I think if you search my posting history, which is a service freely available on this site, you will find it just as variable as yours, and far more variable than @Peregrina, who sees it as her task to patrol Brexit threads and say how awful it is to be in the UK at the current time and how Brexit has been a disaster.

But, somehow, posting history seems to matter less to you when the poster's views and yours are at idem.[/quote]
Ah yes, but you distinguish yourself.

You now seem to be an expert on animal husbandry.

@DGRossetti

I wonder if there is space in the vernacular for "Boris Bangers" to replace "porkies" as absolute whoppers of the first order.

Or "Boris' bacon" ?

Tory trotters ?
This is - of course - a Conservative cull so "Conservative crackling" ?

Sunak Spare RIbs ?

Shame on you! :D

Well, I post on the Brexit threads a lot because as an EU national in the UK, I have a fair amount of skin in the game.

I also post on relationship threads a lot because I have the experience to support spouses who are struggling with addicted partners.

None of that is relevant to my feeling that anyone who thinks Brexit is going well so far is delusional.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]Peregrina,

I don’t think I mentioned which way I voted or why.

Being able to see pluses and minuses in something does not mean I supported Brexit.

In fact, had the EU remained as a Northern European block of like-minded and broadly economically aligned countries, i would have been a very enthusiastic remainer.

But, we are where we are, and dishonestly claiming that trying to integrate new migrants from poor nations accounting, at its peak, to 5-10% of the population had zero negative effects or that some of them leaving will not, over time, have some positive effects, is just ignoring data and basic economic theory.

The demographic here enjoyed cheap cleaners, builders , waiters etc, but, for the cleaners, builders, waiters (and lorry drivers, fruit pickers, abattoir workers etc), it meant zero bargaining power and little chance of dignified work for a dignified wage.

As Blair (and others) have argued, it would have made little difference had we applied the 7 year rule, with freedom of movement they would have come anyway and worked on the black (as many do, anyway, here and in Germany, where the rule was applied)

Again, below is an interesting (albeit long) article from an extremely pro EU source (the FT) which examines both the benefits and dis benefits of EU freedom of movement and labour.

www.ft.com/content/de721f35-d228-48de-bd9f-d2168b16aba6[/quote]
Your prejudice and (potentially) bad faith are shown by your reference to a "Northen European bloc" - you are either confused or ignorant of the history of the EC/EEC. Not a good look either way.

Out of curiosity, I did a search on my own name (the current one) and I was apparently on more than 500 and of the threads shown, I was on 20 Brexit threads, of which a good many where when it was titled EU Referendum. So what were the other 100s on? I didn't bother to count, but on a variety of topics. These tend to have a short shelf life. E.g. where should I go for a short haul holiday? I recommend.....

Whereas the Westminstenders threads continued for the better part of five years, which I think must be some sort of MN record, and have now been renamed the Brexit Megathread.

@Peregrina

Out of curiosity, I did a search on my own name (the current one) and I was apparently on more than 500 and of the threads shown, I was on 20 Brexit threads, of which a good many where when it was titled EU Referendum. So what were the other 100s on? I didn't bother to count, but on a variety of topics. These tend to have a short shelf life. E.g. where should I go for a short haul holiday? I recommend.....

Whereas the Westminstenders threads continued for the better part of five years, which I think must be some sort of MN record, and have now been renamed the Brexit Megathread.

peregrina but you are:

• Not one of the Brexit faithful
• An annoying person who argues with relevant facts and information, not Brexit Kool-Aid

So of course you're in the line of fire.

Yes, since when was Italy part of N Europe?

It's a good question, which countries are N European - I would offer UK, Ireland, the Nordic Countries and Netherlands. But where do Germany and France fit? France spans both north and south Europe with the Channel, Atlantic and Mediterranean coasts. Germany has North Sea and Baltic coasts, but do Germans from say Bavaria regard themselves as North Europeans? I would suspect not.