Westminstenders: Tachographs and Empty Shelves

[pointythings]

So Grant Shapps' solution to the shortage of lorry drivers is to allow them to drive longer hours.

Leading to more accidents and deaths on the UK's roads. But Brexit is Job Done and all is well - isn't it?

@prettybird Yes GS today has absolutely gone out of his way to take 100% responsibility for the penalty takers and tactics.

Personally, i think he has got nothing to take responsibility for, other than to get the team to the final, an outstanding achievement.

On Southgate ,Taking responsibility, which should go without saying tbh, and apologising are not the same thing.

On the battlegroups paper, yes I read it, what are you suggesting I've missed?

That I'd already mentioned a small peacekeeping force in my own post.

And that only 2 "battle groups" (of the 18) are on standby at any one time and should only ever be deployed for a limited duration. They were a Franco-British-German initiative.

A "battle group" consists of a whole 1,500 troops. Even two of them is hardly an "army".

And anyway, in practice, they've never yet been deployed (largely because they're not an army and need agreement from the member states) for peace keeping/humanitarian duties - although there have been times when perhaps they should have been.

They were a Franco-British-German initiative.

This is key, I think - any EU Army would have been led by the two leading military nations which were France and the UK. Not only that, the paper is 8 years old so no longer fully applicable.

I acknowlege I missed anything saying 2 out of 18 in that paper, though I've since seen it elsewhere. So 2 x 1500 = 3000, as you say small fry
18 x 1500 = 27,000, slightly less small fry. Perhaps you are forgetting that my postion is that NATO should be the only military alliance in town.

I actually don't disagree with you about NATO louise : but with Trump casting aspersions on NATO and pulling back from it and Brexit meaning that the UK I'd no longer amongst the EU influencers, unsurprisingly, the EU has growing concerns about a coordinated defensive capability - so as I mentioned, the UK leaving has probably made an EU "army" of some form more, not less, likely. Fortunately, the "right" President won.

As I've read it, the EU "battle group" which IMHO is an unhelpful name but might be the correct one in military terms is not a military alliance per se but there to provide peacekeeping support or humanitarian aid and resources on a short term basis where required, usually? at the request of the UN (and where arguably it has failed, as it didn't get involved when it perhaps should have done).

You probably realise this but I suggest that the Trump camp's reservations about NATO were about a) whether it served America's interests from his "America First" POV and b) the extent to which citizens in NATO nations that weren't the USA relied too heavily on the promise of NATOs common defence, thereby avoiding the need to invest in their own capability and relying on the American tax payer. European NATO members (including the UKs) failure to invest enough in their own capability caused this and an EU structure doesn't really solve the problem.

Frankie - you are wasting your breath with Leavers

Chortle completely agree - though someone needs to correct each false claim lest it become 'true' by being uncorrected - which has been a modus operandi of the leave etc movements.

Just like the "I have given many examples on these threads" comments which never have substance and are used to close down questions.

EU army - yet another squirrel - it would only have existed if HMG wanted it - though they'd probably ignore parliament again - what with parliament not being sovereign.

In the real world we do not have an army and have not had less than half an army for a long time. We have bugger all naval capability and are dependant on the US for our air force. The 'independent' deterrent is no such thing.

We have ca 80k soldiers and 30k reservists, uk army operating model used to be 30% active, 30% training and 30% recuperation - meaning we've hardly got two divisions to deploy let alone an army.

The upshot is that for us to have any capability we have to partner with others - which means the US or France/Germany. Reducing our current over dependence on the US ought to be a good idea.

Just like the "I have given many examples on these threads" comments which never have substance and are used to close down questions.

To give us our due , we never let them get away with "I have given many examples" - and they never manage to close down the questions

I actually welcome the new squirrels: to mix metaphors and similes, it's like shooting fish in a barrel refuting their inane "statements" (I wouldn't go as far as to say "arguments" ).

And as you say Frankie - it's worth taking the time to take down the lies and mistruths false claims lest they take on the patina of acceptability.

I think it's cute how we get these visiting TruBeLeavers, here to road-test whether the latest ejaculation empty slogan will be the empty slogan to convert the heretics.

Also, this thread does serve an important purpose for TruBrexitannians, because in order for the full sensual patriotic experience, there have to be two parts: (1) triumphalist posturing about how Brexitannia is crushing the awestruck and cowering snivelers of Foreign; (2) bleating about how Brexitannians are helpless ickle fwuffy-bunnikins being cruelly oppressed by overwhelming forces of Foreign.

@DrBlackbird

Hello Lord Tebbit, nice of you to drop in.

Not being English/British born, I'm not getting the reference. Still, I'll go out on a limb and say that I'm guessing that wasn't meant as a wholly complimentary comparison.

Apologies if I offended you with my question. Was definitely not intended to doubt your Englishness.

The "Tebbit Cricket Test" is like a Turing test for racists.

Farming Today:

Labour shortages due to Brexit/Covid combo.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000xsw4

Government wins Aid cut vote by 333-298

Result - Rishi Sunak's £4bn annual cut to Britain's international aid will continue for at least 5 years
(Jim Pickard)

'enshrined in law' they said

Shocking dereliction of duty by an awful government - austerity visited upon the worlds poorest... cue Brexitier with "but what about the RoW etc"

Mitchell and May gave very passionate speeches on restoring the aid cut.

Maybe now they'll do a Bercow? both would fit into todays Lab party better then this conservative one.

Just goes to show how little respect this government has for commitments that are supposedly “enshrined in law”

....see also “International Treaties” even ones that they themselves negotiated and then praised themselves for having "got the job done"

Beth Rigby on twitter

The potential rebellion was billed as being strong enough to force defeat. In the end Sunak talked many round.

Here are the 24 rebels, including a former PM Theresa May and a clutch of former cabinet ministers incl Jeremy Hunt, Damian Green, Andrew Mitchell Karen Bradley

twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1414990935134507010?s=19

Good to see that at least some Tories have the vestige of a conscience.

I don't think that May will ever fit into the Labour party. Like Dominic Grieve or Michael Heseltine - they have Tory written through them like a stick of rock. But they were Tories who had a conscience - which cannot be said for Johnson and cronies.

Where are those posters from previous threads who think that Johnson and the Tories are doing a good job? What thoughts do they have on him reneging on Manifesto commitments?

Is it the case that in theory at least it could be reversed repeatedly by the House of Lords as this reduction was not in the manifesto?

I assume it could be, but will it?

As to how popular this vote by Tory MPs is - I suspect that MPs like May have the finger on the pulse of what their own constituents are happy with, and I don't think that this will go down well. It may play better in the new Tory 'Red Wall' seats.

Reasons to defend the cut, "its still more than random eu country", "it is only temporary", "more money for UK aid" (forgetting free school meals and the minimum budget for school catch up), all politicians lie, there is no money.

These are just the ones I have heard.

Here are the 24 rebels, including a former PM Theresa May and a clutch of former cabinet ministers incl Jeremy Hunt, Damian Green, Andrew Mitchell Karen Bradley

Johnson's got rid of the more intelligent Tory MPs. Now he's doing his best to drive out the last of them.

Johnson's got rid of the more intelligent Tory MPs. Now he's doing his best to drive out the last of them.

That's why we've been so screwed through the pandemic, he has replaced any ministers with intellect and experience with a bunch of yes men who don't have a clue what they are doing. It is a mess.