Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

[ListeningQuietly]

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

I laughed at Master DRoss - what were his parents thinking when they named him?

@Kendodd

Starmer, being a very competent lawyer was aware of this fact. He voted for the deal as opp He could have abstained.

Do you know how many headbangers are in the ConBrexshitive party?

Although I do agree with you. However, hair on fire and all that...

I thought that the Tory Party was nearly all headbangers now - the half way decent ones got chased out of the party at the last election.

I think Starmer should have abstained, saying that this was a bad deal, and knowing that Johnson would get it through anyway.

“It was taking an American-style media approach. What they said early on was ‘facts don’t work’ and that’s it. The remain campaign featured fact, fact, fact, fact, fact. It just doesn’t work. You have got to connect with people emotionally. It’s the Trump success.”

Kendodd you're presenting logical and factual arguments and this just won't get any headway against emotions. Trump very nearly made a second term. People are emotional about Johnson because he's strategically emotional. Personally, I don't think it's a great look for a country's leader, but there's no doubt that there's enough British voters who do.

Personally, I don't think it's a great look for a country's leader, but there's no doubt that there's enough British voters who do.

There is a curious disconnect here. The sort of people who are both small and large C conservative probably set a store by looking clean and tidy, but Johnson is a slob. I agree that for someone who is overweight it's more difficult to look smart, but he doesn't want to try.

The Just William look might be fine up to your mid-twenties but after that?

I keep remembering a random conversation I had at the end of 2019 with a farmer, who voted Boris and voted Brexit. I tried pointing out how it could ruin his family's future as well as the UK's but he had this blind faith that somehow it would all be better based on nothing he could actually put his finger on. When I laid out what is likely to happen he had this touching belief that 'Boris wouldn't do that', like he was some sort of old trusted family friend.

I personally think the Tories will win the next 2-3 elections on the back of their nationalistic, 'anti-woke' kind of agenda. As someone said above it's an emotional vote. They have unified enough of the country so that 40%-ish of them will turn out and vote for them which they know is enough to get pretty large majorities especially whilst the more progressive votes are generally split in many constituencies.

Having a self-aware narcissist in charge has only helped their cause as his natural state is to lie, cheat and gaslight. Generally most people wouldn't want someone like Boris in their life - you certainly wouldn't stand for having a friend like him, if he were your partner you'd likely find yourself in an abusive/toxic relationship, if he were your boss you'd be leaving your job sharpish but his whole eccentric Churchill act is ideal for manipulating that 40% of voters who are jingoistic and emotionally led. They way they stick up for him despite the lies, obvious lack of morals and decline of Britain even seems like a form of trauma bonding.

I think many of us on here said Labour should have abstained on the deal and that they would be hostages to fortune if they voted for it. It would have gone through anyway and been totally owned by/the Tories.
Every front bench Labour spokesperson I have heard has been pitifully underwhelming. The words come out but they seem to lack coherent structure or meaning. I don’t know how they manage to sound so consistently evasive and indecisive. There must be a special training programme.
(Now awaiting one of our regular Brexiters to come along and accuse us all of loving Labour, or some whataboutery about Starmer.)

@borntobequiet

Thanks for the new thread. Placemarking with an observation that Arlene was on the radio the other day deflecting like crazy. But most noticeable was the constant reiteration of old grievances. The tone, the language, the sense of bitter resentment and ingrained entitlement. God knows how many generations will have to pass before NI is over its history, if ever. On another note, I’ve now retired for a second time and am already bored. At least the gyms are open next week and I live in a lovely part of the country with lots of good walks.

Gerry Adams did say the loyalists would be broken with equality. Looks like he was right.

Belated place marking.

Not had much free time of late, what with getting a job and all that palaver.

I personally think the Tories will win the next 2-3 elections...They have unified enough of the country so that 40%-ish of them will turn out and vote for them which they know is enough to get pretty large majorities especially whilst the more progressive votes are generally split in many constituencies.

Sadly, I have to agree with this prediction. Unless Johnson self implodes, he will remain and Tories re-elected. It is so incredibly frustrating that the majority in this country are against so much of the current government policy, but held hostage by FPTP and by a centre, centre left vote split between Labour, LD's, Green, Independents etc.

In the US, Trump was voted out because the only other genuine option was one political party and because of extremely concerted effort by activists to register new voters / get them to vote. Not sure that's the issue here...

PS Congrats to DGR on your new job

Even if Johnson self implodes, the current Tory party has so lurched towards the right wing that someone equally bad is likely to replace him. Though maybe not someone quite so untidy and lazy.

I'm not so pessimistic. Ok, current Tory/Brexit voters have been captured, but generally they're old. Our young people haven't. They will live with the damage Brexit has caused to their opportunities and freedoms and will know who the architects of this were. As I said before Starmer was an absolute fool of the highest order to go anywhere near Johnson's deal and risks having the blame shifted to them, it'll do for Labour what tuition fees (Tory policy) did for the LibDems.
Apparently some fishing communities in Cornwall are furious with Remainers over Brexit, you really couldn't make it up.

I saw a report that it is being suggested (sorry I can't remember by whom ) in the last couple of days suggest - no doubt due to the growing realisation of what Brexit means - that there should be a requirement of exit visas - so not only the young would loose freedom of movement, but also if the had a job offer overseas - the opportunity to freely pursue that opportunity.
That's only going to be a vote winner for the retired and those that lack any education

I think they have to be furious with Remainers - that is easier than admitting that they had been conned. No one likes to acknowledge that they were suckers. I therefore have a bit more respect for those Leavers who know that Johnson's lousy deal is as much the cause of their problems - a more skillful negotiator might have rowed back from some of the Red Lines that May had imposed.

So, DGR Deliveroo or pub doorman ?

LostToucan
Seems like HM Treasury at least knew what was coming down the line.
At minimum, this means that exit summary declarations will be required when goods are exported from NI to GB, in order to meet the EU’s obligations under the SAFE framework.

The audio In KenDodd's video link is not very clear in parts - although I did hear Boris Johnson jokingly ask the NI exporter if he exports illegal weapons or endangered species - the SAFE framework? (audio not clear in the rest of his interaction with the exporter).

Here is the extract from my KPMG link again (dated 26 January 2021);

It has been agreed that businesses will not be required to submit Export and Exit Summary Declarations for most goods when moving from NI to GB - however, the relevant data will be collected by alternative means, for example, data collected by ferry companies through other systems. In only limited cases will businesses be required to provide customs declarations for NI to GB movements, relating to international obligations for high risk goods and for goods not in free circulation (i.e., goods moving under special procedures including transit movements).

@Peregrina

Personally, I don't think it's a great look for a country's leader, but there's no doubt that there's enough British voters who do.

There is a curious disconnect here. The sort of people who are both small and large C conservative probably set a store by looking clean and tidy, but Johnson is a slob. I agree that for someone who is overweight it's more difficult to look smart, but he doesn't want to try.

The Just William look might be fine up to your mid-twenties but after that?

Johnson could have done with brushing his hair for sure but that's just his image. Thought the words of his statement were very well chosen tbh. His suit jacket was clearly too big for him though IMO. I wonder if he's lost weight (I beleive he has after illness) and then he's found that the "emergency" black suit jacket was a size or 2 too large.

Didn’t read the deal and obviously didn’t read the NI protocol either - below from an article I read earlier:

…the British Government and the EU have now created an awful incentive for loyalist paramilitaries to demonstrate an equivalent level of threat.

That incentive is not just implied, but actually written into Article 16 of the Protocol itself.

There, it states that UK or the EU can unilaterally suspend aspects of the Protocol’s operation if it is causing “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”.

That’s the political equivalent of a teacher telling a delinquent school pupil that they can only get out of a locked classroom by setting it alight.

@DGRossetti

Belated place marking.

Not had much free time of late, what with getting a job and all that palaver.

That is one unfortunate cat.

although I did hear Boris Johnson jokingly ask the NI exporter if he exports illegal weapons or endangered species

And you think that 'joke' is worthy of repetition, do you Clavinova? Given that there have now been seven nights of violence in N Ireland.

@Eve

Didn’t read the deal and obviously didn’t read the NI protocol either - below from an article I read earlier:

…the British Government and the EU have now created an awful incentive for loyalist paramilitaries to demonstrate an equivalent level of threat.

That incentive is not just implied, but actually written into Article 16 of the Protocol itself.

There, it states that UK or the EU can unilaterally suspend aspects of the Protocol’s operation if it is causing “serious economic, societal or environmental difficulties that are liable to persist”.

That’s the political equivalent of a teacher telling a delinquent school pupil that they can only get out of a locked classroom by setting it alight.

I read a legal blog a while back that said Article 16 can only be applied to 'reasonably unforeseeable consequences'. Trashing the GFA was clearly seen beforehand and they chose to disregard it.

As we’re down to semantics of that one video clip where Johnson claims unfettered access from NI to GB, he’s made false claims about unfettered access from GN to NI as well. From Dec 2019:

“Yes [that’s wrong],” said the Tory leader. “Because there’s no question of there being checks on goods going NI/GB or GB/NI because they are part of – if you look at what the deal is, we’re part of the same customs territory and it’s very clear that there should be unfettered access between Northern Ireland and the rest of GB.”

So Johnson explicitly claiming no checks for goods moving GB to NI.

www.irishtimes.com/news/world/uk/johnson-admits-there-will-be-checks-on-goods-between-britain-and-north-1.4108840?mode=amp

And yet, in May 2020:

The government has privately conceded there will be post-Brexit checks on goods crossing the Irish Sea, months after Boris Johnson insisted there would be no such trade barriers.

In a letter to the executive office in Stormont the government confirmed there would be border control posts in three ports, Belfast, Warrenpoint and Larne.

amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/13/brexit-will-mean-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea-government-admits?__twitter_impression=true

For Clavinova, he's a little video of Johnson lying repeatedly and a link to some of his lies. I'm sure you'll be able to find he told the gods honest truth with every word.
boris-johnson-lies.com/
twitter.com/i/status/1379907354905481219

Love this

Professor Lord Sir Dominic Scummings PhD (retd.) @Eddystone506
15h

The BBC are doing 50x more analysis of Philip’s death than they did of Brexit

Grammoss #FBPE @Gramoss
Replying to @Eddystone506

For balance they’ll probably bring on some non experts to opine that he’s still alive

Peregrina
And you think that 'joke' is worthy of repetition, do you Clavinova?

I took my cue from Kendodd - she posted; Here he is lying and laughing about it all - she then asked me if I had watched the clip [from 2019]. Perhaps the NI businessmen should not have laughed in return. Perhaps KenDodd should be more careful with her links and posts in future.

TheSandman, vera99 and HannibalHayes

I thought your comments regarding the Duke of Edinburgh last night were inappropriate and uncalled for - no doubt Peregrina told you so herself - oh, wait...

I shall have to look at the other posts later.