Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

[ListeningQuietly]

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

BBC in denial again...

IPlayer is stupidly slow right now - almost like it’s the 2021 equivalent of all the video stores being emptied in 1997 when Diana was the only thing on TV for weeks.

Strange that Clavinova hasn’t expressed an opinion about whether Johnson is just ignorant or a blatant liar.

AuldAlliance

I still believe that the UK Government went into discussions on Erasmus in good faith.

LostToucan
did Johnson not understand what he’d signed up to or did he just blatantly lie?

He clearly didn't blatantly lie (about export forms from NI to GB) because the Protocol talks about "unfettered access" - he may have been wrongly advised at the time.

Helpful KPMG article here:

Unfettered access NI to GB

The December 2020 Command Paper includes some details on how unfettered access to the GB market will continue to be available to NI businesses. This will include a light touch approach in a Phase 1 period (which is expected to last until the second half of 2021)...

In the longer term the UK Government intend that unfettered access should only be available to genuine NI businesses and as such a longer term framework of rules (Phase 2) is proposed for later in 2021 which will aim to identify “qualifying traders” as they check into ports and airports through an auto-enrolment system, so that their goods can move into GB without further customs controls or tariffs. We will have to wait for the longer-term criteria to be set out, however, it is likely that an NI establishment test will need to be satisfied.

It has been agreed that businesses will not be required to submit Export and Exit Summary Declarations for most goods when moving from NI to GB - however, the relevant data will be collected by alternative means, for example, data collected by ferry companies through other systems. In only limited cases will businesses be required to provide customs declarations for NI to GB movements, relating to international obligations for high risk goods and for goods not in free circulation (i.e., goods moving under special procedures including transit movements).

home.kpmg/ie/en/home/insights/2021/01/brexit-deal-agreed-the-protocol-ireland-northern-ireland.html

Encouraging news from France today;

UK-France trade bounced back to close to pre-pandemic levels in March, raising hopes that the impact of Britain’s departure from the EU might not be as dramatic as feared.

Data from French customs officials showed that after a plunge in January, imports from the UK rose to 107 per cent of pre-Covid levels last month, with exports at 96 per cent.

www.cityam.com/uk-france-trade-back-at-pre-pandemic-levels-in-march/

LostToucan

I was eating dinner. Now I'm going to watch a film.

@Peregrina

When it comes down to it, the Tories will throw Scotland under the bus too - although it's a bit more difficult. There is their nuclear base for a starter; where in England can they dump it?

Wales.....

Boris Johnson is as dishonest as he is lazy, that is simply a matter of fact. He and his cronies are in power because of the inadequacies of the FPTP system. Anyone who voted for him in December 2019 when his record was there for all to see is stupid, ignorant, morally bankrupt or all 3.

So there we have it, Clavinova genuinely believes Boris Johnson is an honest man who doesn't lie.
Maybe that it, that's the insight we need, maybe his supporters really do believe what he says and continue to believe him despite the mountain of evidence of lying?

What about the racism and misogyny?

He clearly didn't blatantly lie (about export forms from NI to GB) because the Protocol talks about "unfettered access" - he may have been wrongly advised at the time.

So two weeks previously Johnson’s Brexit Secretary tells the HoL that there won’t be unfettered access and you’re trying to make out that Johnson was wrongly advised?

Are you implying that Barclay lied to Johnson?

Thing is, if Johnson doesn't lie, as @Clavinova genuinely believes (I believe her/him when she says that) then that means he's incompetent.

@Kendodd He never stops lying, but his optimism obviously sells well as he is so high in the polls. I don't get it either.

Seems like HM Treasury at least knew what was coming down the line.

At minimum, this means that exit summary declarations will be required when goods are exported from NI to GB, in order to meet the EU’s obligations under the SAFE framework.

www.politico.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/LSRFUR-slides.pdf

I agree, he constantly lies. Maybe a significant percentage of the population STILL actually believe what he says, Clavinova clearly does. I struggle to comprehend how people can't see him for the habitual liar he is, but there we go, I guess some people really still believe what he says. I think another big chunk don't care about how much he lies.

Exactly right Ken Dodd, and that's why this country is becoming ever more dystopian.It will take a generation at least to recover from this bunch of incompetent looters, if recovery is possible at all, and swathes of people don't know or care. Surely to god the scruffy overgrown schoolboy serial shagger routine is old by now??

I suspect that Johnson's idea of negotiating in good faith is not the same as that commonly held by a majority. His housemaster wrote that he seemed to think that he was free of the obligations which bound others, and if he takes that attitude into negotiations he won't get very far. He will think that it's not fair, they won't play with me.

Nothing to do with you being an absolute shit who doesn't know how to co-operate.

@Kendodd

Thing is, if Johnson doesn't lie, as *@Clavinova* genuinely believes (I believe her/him when she says that) then that means he's incompetent.

Frankly, I don't believe for a moment that it believes that. It is so obviously coming on threads to obfuscate, never engage, that it has shill written all over it. Why it's still being paid bothering at the moment is weird, but they do need to still keep control of the agenda. And this is where Starmer is failing so badly. I know he's got to fight the entire media establishment as well, but he seems to have simply conceded all agenda setting to the Conbrexatives.

Why did Keir Starmer support the Brexit deal? He is a lawyer isn't he? They generally read contracts.
I agree Starmer was a fool to support Johnsons deal. The deal Johnson negotiated, campaigned on, lied about, said was a great deal then found it was so shit he wanted to break the law to get out of. I suspect when the shit hits the pan, it will be Labour that is blamed for Johnson's Tory brexit deal. Starmer was a fool to go anywhere near it.

I agree Starmer was a fool to support Johnsons deal.

I fully agree. Johnson would have got the deal through without any votes from the other parties, and then it would wholly be a Tory Deal. If it became a success they would be able to take all the credit; if a failure, well it would still be someone else's fault.

So ... evidence thus far is that the Treasury and the Brexit Secretary knew that “unfettered access” was not the case.

But Johnson told NI businesses that was untrue?

Liar or incompetent? Or both?

I'm not entirely sure about that. The number of headbangers in the Tory party meant that if they had voted against the deal as not being Brexshitty enough, we could have ended up with no deal not that what we've got is much better , and Starmer, being a very competent lawyer was aware of this fact. He voted for the deal as opposed to no deal because there were no better options on the table. If he'd voted against, and so had the headbangers, he'd be being blamed for that too. It really was a no win situation. I think it was an actual "hair on fire" situation, and I think he had to take care of that first.

What he's done since, well, that's where I'm having a problem.

And this was nothing to do with Starmer or Labour. Or any other political parties.

Nobody outside the Tory brethren had anything to do with the Brexit negotiations, which were finally presented to Parliament at the dying hours of 2020 as it’s “this” or “nothing”.

@Kendodd

Unfortunately they are not intelligent enough to do that. And they don't care enough to do that, their voters don't care, and they know their voters don't care and will support them regardless.

As I said earlier, what sort of country have we become that we can elect a man with Johnson's character and integrity. I think it says as much about us as it does about him.

'We'? I'm Scottish. We didn't vote for him.

The Tories and Labour have become interchangeable. The Tories in particular have become so toxic here that the local branch officer (A totally out of his depth youngster who glories in the name of DRoss) has had to beg people to vote Labour in next month's Holyrood elections.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/douglas-ross-suggests-voting-labour-23878158.amp?amp/

Master D Ross seems to be in a slightly precarious position himself, with a majority of just 513?

Arlene and the DUP are desperately trying to stay relevant, harnessing the Loyalist thugs in an effort to hold back the tide.

That 56 percent Remain vote in NI must have scared them shitless.

Hopefully this is their absolute last gasp.

Starmer, being a very competent lawyer was aware of this fact. He voted for the deal as opp
He could have abstained.