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Brexit

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Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

955 replies

ListeningQuietly · 08/04/2021 12:06

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
mrslaughan · 21/04/2021 20:23

Brexiteers making friends and influencing people.....

twitter.com/davidheniguk/status/1384841977372594181?s=21

HannibalHayeski · 21/04/2021 20:24

@Clavinova

borntobequiet (Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?)

It was a rhetorical/mordacious question - of course I knew the answer already.

I don't think it was, because you still don't seem to have the slightest grasp of the reality...
HannibalHayeski · 21/04/2021 20:26

[quote mrslaughan]Brexiteers making friends and influencing people.....

twitter.com/davidheniguk/status/1384841977372594181?s=21[/quote]
Let's be honest. Who would back Pork Markets against anybody?

mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 20:39

Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader at Westminster, said: “I’m afraid the genie is out of the bottle and that genie is that the EU clearly sees the Northern Ireland protocol as a stick to beat the UK with…

Even if Brussels’ decision to trigger the clause turns out to have been a simple technical error made by stressed officials, the EU has now made it clear that the protocol can be undermined with a simple press release, and given fuel to those who want it gone for good. Enemies of the Brexit deal are newly emboldened in their campaign.

According to your version of 'how stuff happens', @Clavinova, Northern Ireland history began in January 2021.

Donaldson was talking about himself and his political cronies when he referred to those who want the GFA done away with, in case you hadn't understood. They have devoted themselves wholeheartedly to that aim, and to the demolition of the Protocol since it was first announced.

Brace yourself - I am about to C&P like a boss:
sluggerotoole.com/2021/02/06/unionisms-approach-to-the-ni-protocol-is-disappointing-but-not-surprising/
What I have seen in recent days from the Ulster Unionists and the DUP brings me back to the heady days of the 2012 flag protests that erupted at Belfast City Hall and spread across Northern Ireland. For what seemed like a long time the political institutions here were at their most vulnerable (they did come falling down less than five years later for different reasons, but the rot began here). Loyalists felt empowered and emboldened as their political leaders were now following them. The airwaves of the BBC and local broadcasters were filled with the voices of disenfranchised ‘dissident’ Unionists who saw an opportunity to claw back some of the power they felt they had lost in the years following the Good Friday Agreement and feet were being put down all across the board to fight back against ‘Pan-Nationalism’ – whatever that is.

I’ve seen this again in the actions and reactions of the DUP and UUP, and to a lesser extent the TUV (If there’s one thing they actually do agree with, please let me know in the comments) regarding the NI Protocol. Granted, the actions of the EU Commission in threatening to invoke Article 16 over COVID vaccines was reprehensible, and was quickly walked back when they realised they had massively underestimated the opposition of the UK, Irish and N.Irish governments. Very few things seem to unite Michelle O’Neill and Jamie Bryson but the EU managed it. What they did was create an opportunity for hard Brexiteers to seize on, a shining example of the bureaucratic overreach they had railed against in 2016, by foreign powers in Brussels. Businesses are suffering due to the controls and barriers put in place by the NI Protocol, and its important that their voices are heard – but let’s be very clear here – the DUP and UUP own this mess, and they can’t ride both horses.

June this year will mark five years since the referendum on the UK’s EU membership took place, and in that time the NI Protocol is the most workable solution that most of the key players could agree to, and sell to their bases. So what’s the alternative? No, really, I’m asking.

Arlene Foster is leading the charge against the border in the Irish Sea (you know, the one that Boris said would never happen) and the Ulster Unionists, as predicted, are falling in behind her and the DUP. Tensions are simmering, the offices of elected reps from all sides have been tarred with intimidating graffiti, threats seemingly issued to inspection staff at the Port of Larne, Loyalist paramilitary spokespeople being brought onto BBC Radio Ulster to talk about what they might do if the NI Protocol isn’t rejigged in their favour. More heat than light, which is what many of us have come to expect now from the DUP when they oppose things that are beyond their control.

Except this wasn’t beyond their control. The DUP had a golden opportunity after the 2017 Westminster elections to force the British Government into accepting a softer Brexit, one that they could proudly stand over and call their own. Arlene et al would have been able to take a victory lap – that a small political party from a small corner of Europe had managed to give the EU27 a bloody nose and grasp an opportunity that no political movement from Northern Ireland had ever had, and probably would never get again. But they blew it – the DUP’s support has plummeted over the NI Protocol, something that may have been entirely avoided if they had been able to decide what kind of Brexit they wanted and championed it, rather than taking every possible opportunity to destroy whatever concessions Theresa May was able to squeeze from Europe.

And now they want their cake and to eat it – they want to be able to show that this is not a mess of their making, and that they can somehow change the cards in their deck and inevitably paint it as some kind of massive conspiracy against them and their supporters when it fails. Boris Johnston and the UK Government, with an 80 seat majority in Westminster, has absolutely no interest in making Brexit work for Northern Ireland if it means England has an easier time of it. The chest beating and sabre-rattling from mainstream Unionists is disappointing, but not at all unexpected at this point. I fear that lessons have not been learned from 2012, and this race to the bottom to determine what is legitimate constitutional politics will end in disaster for this place, for its people, and our fragile institutions.

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 21:53

mathanxiety
According to your version of 'how stuff happens', @ Clavinova, Northern Ireland history began in January 2021.

Not at all - I was simply stating that the EU's error in triggering Article 16 has clearly angered the DUP and emboldened their campaign to scrap the NI Protocol. Simon Coveney described the EU's actions as “a costly mistake” - it was.

And surely the EU realise that all parties involved need to show some flexibility now in an attempt to resolve matters - the ball is in their court as well.

ListeningQuietly · 21/04/2021 22:08

Frankie
He wanted to bring expat staff into the UK without them being due for UK employment taxes
cheeky git

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 22:25

According to your version of 'how stuff happens', @ Clavinova, Northern Ireland history began in January 2021.

'Not at all - I was simply stating that the EU's error in triggering Article 16 has clearly angered the DUP and emboldened their campaign to scrap the NI Protocol.'

Q.E.D.

That comment is exactly what I had in mind when I said that you seem to believe NI history began in 2021.

The DUP are always angered. The are also in a constant state of emboldenment.

They flew directly in the face of the expressed wish of the majority of NI voters in their continued hardline insistence on Brexit, after all. Shameless, pigheaded, and short-sighted are other adjectives that could equally be applied to them, and there are more.

Arborea · 21/04/2021 22:35

The thing that baffles me about the Dyson leaks is why people are engaging with the substance of the conveniently 'leaked' allegations (by whom? And why?) twitter.com/Danaiolos/status/1384771667558375428

TheSandman · 21/04/2021 22:43

You are talking nonsense - I clearly didn't buy the newspaper.

"...and some fell on stony ground. " Sorry, Clavinova, I don't know whether you had your sense of humour surgically removed or it just fell out but I give up.

mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 22:43

And surely the EU realise that all parties involved need to show some flexibility now in an attempt to resolve matters - the ball is in their court as well.

Nonsense.

The biggest mistake would be to give in to violence and the threat of violence, and suggesting that the EU turn around and start again because some cowboys in Belfast object to the product of a huge amount of work is gobsmacking. Westminster should be ashamed of its failure to provide political leadership here.

The Protocol was a perfectly fine compromise.

Compromise is a word the DUP interprets as 'defeat', however, so it won't fly with them.

Johnson is a fool to pander to them when he doesn't need them at all - his majority is secure and they represent a small, offshore provincial population whose preoccupations are baffling to most British voters. Hopefully the EU won't blink. Either that or Johnson is a scheming liar who knew perfectly well that the Protocol would be unpopular in NI and decided to do the minimum to make it work, throw NI into chaos and the fear of shortages, and let the chips fall where they might, the better to whine to Brussels and reverse the Protocol.

You can only choose hapless Boris led by the nose or scheming liar Boris. There are no other explanations for what he has done here.

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 22:52

TheSandman

You have obviously enrolled at the Keir Starmer School of Comedy. Grin

Peregrina · 21/04/2021 22:53

Lazy scheming liar I would think. But because he's lazy, his schemes don't always go the way he plans.

Kendodd · 22/04/2021 07:25

I think the thing Johnson realises though is the Tory/Brexit voters in England don't give a shit about NI and he can keep power without accommodating the other three nations. NI may proof useful to him only in that he will blame the EU for any problems there, his supporters will nod along and he may need to drum up some anti EU feeling to distract the public from Brexit damage to business and freedoms.

DGRossetti · 22/04/2021 07:46

If Brexit were a start up ...

Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for
borntobequiet · 22/04/2021 07:58

You have obviously enrolled at the Keir Starmer School of Comedy. grin

Well that’s grasping at straws, and desperately non-ironic, as one thing Starmer has never been fêted for (on here at least) is his humour. But who knows, the Parliamentary party may spend its time rolling around at his wit and repartee.

PawFives · 22/04/2021 08:11

That’s the thing with Clav she’s so unblinkingly loyal to Johnson and the Tories she seems to think everyone else on this thread loves Labour and Starmer in the same way. Which if she actually read any of the posts she would realise isn’t the case.

FrankieStein402 · 22/04/2021 08:18

He wanted to bring expat staff into the UK without them being due for UK employment taxes

You don't become liable for income tax, nic etc just by visiting the UK to chat about design requirements/manage tests/train the trainer - if these were expats then I guess some might worry about being here long enough to break their non-residency status (30 working days) - but in any case its a relatively minor thing to pester de pfeffel with.

jasjas1973 · 22/04/2021 08:59

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Peregrina · 22/04/2021 09:55

What are these 'Pivot gone bad' and 'Failures to Pivot'?

Other issues - yes I think we can agree. E.g. the early dot com boom was not quite the right time.

I have also seen local businesses over-expand, have order fulfillment and cash flow problems and go bust.

borntobequiet · 22/04/2021 11:02

I believe pivoting is changing strategy when things are going wrong. Pivoting going bad is when the change doesn’t help or makes things worse. In both cases apt descriptors of the current situation.

Clavinova · 22/04/2021 11:48

borntobequiet
Well that’s grasping at straws, and desperately non-ironic, as one thing Starmer has never been fêted for (on here at least) is his humour. But who knows, the Parliamentary party may spend its time rolling around at his wit and repartee.

I thought my comment was very apt, topical and ironic actually -

14 April 2021
Keir Starmer mocked as awkward Line of Duty joke met with complete silence at PMQs.

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/line-of-duty/keir-starmer-line-of-duty-pmqs-b1831259.html

Last Friday, Northern Irish actor Adrian Dunbar, aka Ted Hastings (the TV character in Keir Starmer's joke) was the guest host on HIGNFY. They played a clip of Starmer's 'joke' - with added laughter this time.

Even more amusing if Ted Hastings turns out to be the elusive 'H' after all and Starmer has backed the wrong man.

UltimateFoole · 22/04/2021 12:04

@FrankieStein402

>He wanted to bring expat staff into the UK without them being due for UK employment taxes

You don't become liable for income tax, nic etc just by visiting the UK to chat about design requirements/manage tests/train the trainer - if these were expats then I guess some might worry about being here long enough to break their non-residency status (30 working days) - but in any case its a relatively minor thing to pester de pfeffel with.

What if it could have affected Dyson's own tax / non-residency status? Would that make sense of the messages?
Clavinova · 22/04/2021 12:15

borntobequiet
desperately non-ironic, as one thing Starmer has never been fêted for (on here at least) is his humour.

the Keir Starmer School of Comedy - ironic.

TatianaBis · 22/04/2021 12:54

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DGRossetti · 22/04/2021 13:06

Anyone else look at James Dyson and think "Cecil Parkinson is looking well" ?