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Original poster

Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

955 replies

ListeningQuietly · 08/04/2021 12:06

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

OP posts:
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23
jasjas1973 · 21/04/2021 14:04

Might be better not to selectively quote Clav.....

An EMA spokeswoman told The Telegraph: “The MHRA has access to the EudraVigilance gateway only. This allows them to submit cases (or to receive Northern Irish cases) but they cannot check the data in EudraVigilance

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 14:13

jasjas1973
[Boris Johnson] has lit the flames of political tension, no one else, least of all the EU

Analysis from the BBC link;

The EU's actions are seen as an audacious move. Unionist politicians are incredulous.

Throughout the Brexit process the EU vehemently insisted there could be no border on the island of Ireland. For a while the entire trade deal hinged on this.

But now, to critics, it appears that principle has vanished over vaccines.

It begs the question, if the EU can decide to push this button on this, what else might they use it for in future?

Those who strongly oppose the Brexit arrangements in Northern Ireland will be pushing even harder now for the UK to use Article 16 to override parts of the deal for its own purposes, too. ...

Louise Haigh MP, Labour's Shadow Northern Ireland Secretary, said the move was "deeply destabilising and undermines the huge efforts being made to make the Protocol work".

Other quotes from the BBC article;

Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald described the EU's use of Article 16 as a "grave error".

Ulster Unionist Party leader Steve Aiken said the UK government should now invoke Article 16 in response to the EU's actions.

Alliance Party leader Naomi Long said what was needed was "maximum co-operation", rather than "obstructive behaviour" from the EU.

SDLP leader Colum Eastwood said the European Commission's decision to invoke Article 16 was "disproportionate".

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 14:33

but they cannot check the data in EudraVigilance

They can if they ask - the unnamed EMA spokeswoman could be anyone - how does she know the MHRA didn't ask for data/were granted access to the data? Or they can check the ADR website. The main criticism in the article is that the MHRA missed UK data.

The EMA has access to the data - why did they move so slowly?

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/mar/11/denmark-pauses-astrazeneca-vaccines-to-investigate-blood-clot-reports

Peregrina · 21/04/2021 14:38

But they didn't invoke A16. I know vaccines are the only trophy that the Brexiters can try to lay claim to but the violence flared over Easter when that issue was done and dusted. Violence is still happening with a bomb placed in Derry two nights ago. Directly related to the NI protocol, which from the way Shagger Johnson talks, you would not believe that he negotiated it and signed it only a few months ago.

Peregrina · 21/04/2021 14:41

By the same token as an EMA spokewoman could be anyone - so could the people who loudly proclaim the wonders of Brexit.

AuldAlliance · 21/04/2021 15:25

My Sputnik-flavoured squirrel is frolicking here:
www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56828813

TheSandman · 21/04/2021 16:25

I am female with two dc and married to a man.

What's that got to do with anything?

jasjas1973 · 21/04/2021 16:27

Again Clavinova without Brexit, they'd be no Article 16, as you pointed out, perhaps the GFA wasn't given the importance earlier on that it should have been but from memory, we were all told NI/ROI wouldn't be a problem........ e.g. Farage on QT shut down any debate.

Sure you can argue why shouldn't we be allowed to leave the EU? well we can/have but the NI situation should have been addressed properly before hand.

Johnson is supposed to be an intelligent man, as is Cameron, so why did these pair, between them, manage to put 20 plus years of peace at risk again?

jasjas1973 · 21/04/2021 16:28

The rioting at Easter was carried out by loyalist youths - the bomb was planted by dissident republicans?

Exactly :(

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 17:15

TheSandman
Why did you suggest I would be interested in page three of the Sun newspaper?

jasjas1973
so why did these pair, between them, manage to put 20 plus years of peace at risk again?

Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?

March 2016

A prison officer injured in a dissident republican bomb attack in Northern Ireland earlier this month has died.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-35813224

July 2013
Belfast riots shameful and disgraceful...

there had been more than 4,000 police officers on the streets and another 400 police officers would arrive from England, Wales and Scotland.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-23299768

jasjas1973 · 21/04/2021 18:00

Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?

It didn't (obviously) but the GFA provides a frame work to resolve issues, with Loyalist and Republican politicians resolving issues, with no real push to have a border poll.

Now there is momentum to have one, Loyalists see their British identity vanishing as NI is effectively cut off from GB, the EU and UK have to have a border.....

Do you really not see the problems here? or have a solution?

TheElementsSong · 21/04/2021 18:17

🐿 In November 1983, the World nearly came to a fiery thermonuclear end due to a series of unfortunate misunderstandings between Western and Soviet forces. The trigger was the annual NATO military wargaming exercise known as Abel Archer. Due to a combination of escalating tensions, paranoia and various cock-ups, the Soviet intelligence services became convinced that this year the West really were going to launch a nuclear attack under the cover of the exercise. They prepared to launch a pre-emptive strike of their own against an assortment of Western targets, readying forces throughout the Eastern bloc - which then in turn caused alarm amongst Western intelligence. Breaking this vicious escalating cycle is credited to the US Lt Gen Leonard Perroots, who persuaded NATO forces to delay any reaction until after the Abel Archer exercise.

There are several things True BeLeavers must learn from this. Firstly and most importantly, that membership of the EU did not prevent the near-destruction of the planet and therefore Brexit is a success. Secondly, that the true unsung hero of the Abel Archer scenario is in fact Boris "Shagger" Johnson, who cooled the baddies' nervous tempers by copulating with all the ladies in Moscow. 🐿

mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 18:40

Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?

That's not the point here.

Violence in NI isn't anything new, and it isn't related specifically to any particular new event. It is always a variation on the same old story.

The theme of loyalist determination to remain
(1) in power in NI without accountability to anyone, and
(2) part of the UK
is the common factor throughout all of NI's sorry history.

The state of NI was set up following Unionist gun running on a massive scale alongside mutiny by British Army officers stationed in the Curragh and noises offstage by sympathetic officers elsewhere of a loyalist bent, and the pattern has been repeated for a hundred years at this point.

Outright and frank intimidation of the Westminister government has always worked. Why is anyone surprised that the tactic is being trotted out again?

TheSandman · 21/04/2021 18:40

Why did you suggest I would be interested in page three of the Sun newspaper?

It's the only reason I can think of that anyone would want to buy it.

mathanxiety · 21/04/2021 18:48

"the EU's error enflamed political tensions" - I quoted from BBC news.

LOL, so it must be the last word in reporting and analysis...

All of the recent disgraceful Loyalist actions were carefully orchestrated by Unionist political leadership, and are part of a continuous pattern which has operated with specific political ends in mind for over a hundred years.

'Political tensions' are created. They are created deliberately. They do not appear out of the vapour.

LostToucan · 21/04/2021 18:59

In November 1983, the World nearly came to a fiery thermonuclear end due to a series of unfortunate misunderstandings between Western and Soviet forces. The trigger was the annual NATO military wargaming exercise known as Abel Archer.

See Deutschland 83 for a great fictionalised account.

Peregrina · 21/04/2021 19:06

Re the Abel Archer stuff - for a dramatic portrayal of this see Deutschland 83, which can be found on More 4. Although in this case the hero is one Martin Rauch an East German undercover agent, and not Boris Shagger Johnson. Although Rauch did a little bit of shagging, but not excessively so for a young man.

Peregrina · 21/04/2021 19:09

Cross post there with LostToucan. A very good portrayal. We binge watched it a few weeks ago.

LostToucan · 21/04/2021 19:39

@Peregrina

Cross post there with LostToucan. A very good portrayal. We binge watched it a few weeks ago.
Good wasn’t it? Rewatched it with DS as he’s studying German - need to catch up on ‘86 and ‘89 now.
borntobequiet · 21/04/2021 19:52

Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?

A question that could only be asked by someone profoundly and determinedly ignorant of the history of both the UK and the island of Ireland, and of the history and function of the EU. Very odd for a regular contributor to (and presumably reader of) these threads.

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 19:58

TheSandman
You are talking nonsense - I clearly didn't buy the newspaper.

mathanxiety
(I quoted from BBC news.)
LOL, so it must be the last word in reporting and analysis...

Quite clearly that was my answer to another ridiculous assertion that
I shouldn't be quoting Arlene Foster on aggression because of her links to loyalist terrorism - I was quoting from the BBC News article.

'Political tensions' are created. They are created deliberately. They do not appear out of the vapour.

Quite.

Jeffrey Donaldson, the DUP’s leader at Westminster, said: “I’m afraid the genie is out of the bottle and that genie is that the EU clearly sees the Northern Ireland protocol as a stick to beat the UK with…

Even if Brussels’ decision to trigger the clause turns out to have been a simple technical error made by stressed officials, the EU has now made it clear that the protocol can be undermined with a simple press release, and given fuel to those who want it gone for good. Enemies of the Brexit deal are newly emboldened in their campaign.

inews.co.uk/news/analysis/eu-threat-close-irish-border-fuel-want-brexit-deal-scrapped-851904

Financial Times - although I can only access the first few lines of the article;
Unionist opposition was emboldened when the European Commission briefly sought to deploy Article 16 emergency measures...

www.ft.com/content/48694513-5532-4450-a3e5-cfdede6482be

Clavinova · 21/04/2021 20:14

borntobequiet
(Why didn't membership of the EU prevent these events?)

It was a rhetorical/mordacious question - of course I knew the answer already.

FrankieStein402 · 21/04/2021 20:14

Something doesnt quite gel about the Dyson tax request. I've worked in Singapore long enough to be subject to local tax, albeit a decade ago. At that time there was an international agreement in place between the tax authorities to preclude double taxation. Hard to imagine that would have changed, there were also minimum time periods before any tax liabilities ensued.

Unless he was asking for a concession on some other non-income tax, or 'tax' was a code word for something else it doesn't make sense that he would ask?