Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

[ListeningQuietly]

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

@yellowspanner

The 50K extra nurses were from when Boris became PM, not from 2016. He did not cut the bursary.

Not directly but he could easily restore it, not the 5k bonus, which just about covers rent.

It’s a deliberate two fingers up at everyone and everything, permanently.

I too enjoyed being lectured on the EU/EEA/EFTA. Like we aren’t interested in these things, and didn’t know. A bit like being lectured by my children when they were teenagers and knew everything, and obviously I didn’t. (I find one’s children grow out of this, mostly.)

Yes, I can understand the Trans Pacific Partnership - that will partly be because Australia, New Zealand and Canada are all Pacific nations, and if the USA could be persuaded to join it becomes as good as being the Anglosphere again

Of course it would benefit the UK esp after we left the SM/CU but its also slightly illogical, like Chile applying to join the EU.

Of course it would benefit the UK esp after we left the SM/CU but its also slightly illogical, like Chile applying to join the EU.

And Australia is in Eurovision Song contest as is Israel (I never watch it but know many posters on here like the event). AND it has European in the title so bah to your TPP and EU and EFTA. (Too early for daft posts?)

I misread Chile as China, thinking that would be a turn up for the books if China wanted to join the EU.

But Chile is ex - Spanish Empire, so of course it's logical that they should be part of the EU, isn't it?

Don't forget the bit that nobody is really mentioning - the £1trillion that has disappeared from the economy... Makes the cost of covid seem like a mildly extravagant meal out by comparison.

@FixTheBone

Don't forget the bit that nobody is really mentioning - the £1trillion that has disappeared from the economy... Makes the cost of covid seem like a mildly extravagant meal out by comparison.

I wonder if the aim is to eliminate the black economy by Uberizing everything so that it's impossible for the little man to avoid tax.

History suggests that tends to be the direction of travel once the elite twig they have no opposition.

Incidentally, I was amused but not outraged to hear the UKs FPTP system described as a very efficient way to achieve corruption without needing to bribe too many voters recently.

the £1trillion that has disappeared from the economy...

Wait for our Leavers to tell us either a) £1 million has been gained by ..... [something which might happen but hasn't yet - like Clavinova's free ports are going to bring in millions] so that more than makes up for it,
or b) this amount would have been lost from the economy anyway because it's happened elsewhere [some EU country trotted out as an example].

So, trying to get this straight... ECJ = bad and unacceptable threat to British sovereignty and to British courts, but... Lugano Convention = good and poses no threat British sovereignty?

It's confusing these post Brexit days to figure out which international treaties undermine the very essence of Britishness and which ones don't.

On the subject of Boris Johnson lying, irrespective of the video clip, surely that is a matter of record? He was fired (twice) for lying, lied to his boss at The Spectator when he promised not to become an MP when he was appointed editor, lied to Andrew Mitchell about DfID and so on.

www.thecanary.co/uk/2019/10/05/just-over-100-days-in-and-boris-johnsons-lied-and-misled-80-times-and-rising/

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/21/boris-johnson-lies-marcus-rashford-prime-minister

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-lies-conservative-leader-candidate-list-times-banana-brexit-bus-a8929076.html

www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/60-lies-boris-johnson-tory-21065956

All politicians lie to a certain extent, but Johnson has taken it to a whole new art form. So Peregrina is there any point in asking those who voted for him if they're comfortable with having voted for a repeat liar? It's pretty clear that they are.

So, trying to get this straight... ECJ = bad and unacceptable threat to British sovereignty and to British courts, but... Lugano Convention = good and poses no threat British sovereignty?

Basically yes.

I am reminded of stories of people who tried to sign up as donors on the agreement that only people of a certain skin colour receive their organs. Matched only by a (suspiciously similar ?) number of people who would only receive organs from the correct hue of donor.

For them, it really is a case of a liver isn't "just" a liver.

(Incidentally, did anyone know that it's possible for a human fetus to survive to birth when grown in a liver ?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2932608.stm

(Isn't the placenta grown as a function of the fertilized egg, not the body of the host ?)

Thank you DGR, I was thinking perhaps as long as the treaty or agreement or policy didn't meantion the word European it was acceptable to Johnson et al, but that would be a bit tricky for the ERG then...

It really is time that the ERG found a more suitable name then. Both because it's got the dreaded word European in it and because they never did any research about Europe anyway.

Cue Leavers to come on and tell us that geographically Europe is more than the EU. Which I think most of us know, having a better knowledge of geography than Raab.

Peregrina
the £1trillion that has disappeared from the economy...

Sorry, but which £1 trillion are you referring to? Assets moved from the City of London? Or something else? I know the City of London financial sector contributed approximately £75 billion in tax revenue last year (including tax receipts from employees) -- but we haven't lost £1 trillion, a small percentage of £75 billion perhaps.

Good news here, 12 April 2021 -
^London Stock Exchange has best first quarter for IPOs since 2007.
Despite the Deliveroo damp squib, the market raised more than £5bn in the first three months of 2021.^

www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/12/london-stock-exchange-has-best-first-quarter-for-ipos-since-2007

Not London, but nevertheless;

13 April 2021 -
Global investment bank The Goldman Sachs Group is expanding its footprint in the UK with a new office in the West Midlands that could bring hundreds of jobs.

www.business-live.co.uk/commercial-property/global-investment-bank-goldman-sachs-20374560

DrBlackbird

Is your first source reliable? The link says;
In such a long list of lies, misinformation and dishonesty it’s tricky to pull out highlights.

Number two on their list of 'highlights' -

By 12 July, for example, [Boris Johnson] told the Telegraph that “financial services bring in £72 billion in tax”. ‘Somehow’ he added an extra £43bn to the actual figure of £29bn.

I can't access the Telegraph article but £72 billion in tax is entirely consistent with reports from the City of London Corporation;

Despite the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, the sector’s total tax contribution is expected to remain robust according to the projections made in the report. It estimates that in the current financial year ending in March 2021, the sector will pay between £71.1bn and £75.7bn in taxes.

www.cityam.com/uk-financial-services-sector-maintains-stable-tax-contribution-amid-brexit-and-covid-19-uncertainty/

He was fired (twice) for lying

Well, I certainly don't care much that Boris Johnson was sacked for making up a quote as a trainee journalist aged 23 - not when we can't seem to deport 23 year old murderers, rapists and drug dealers without left-wing campaigners making a fuss.

Could someone please remind me how much vanished on the non-existent Garden Bridge? And also how much public money went into Ms Arcuri's special project? I wont mention Cameron Greensill as that's the deflection of the week. Don't look at Boris, look over there.

It really is time that the ERG found a more suitable name then. Both because it's got the dreaded word European in it and because they never did any research about Europe anyway.

I suspect the ERG brand was wanked (sorry worked) over by a gaggle of SEO "gurus" (for a large slice of wonga) to ensure that in any googling about the "EU" they popped up near the top.

And if it wasn't they wasted a trick.

.

Ah, I knew that my links would provide Clav some material to look through and cherry pick find fault with

And another whataboutery argument thrown in for good measure.

But yes, it's clear that a confirmed and persistent liar is okay to vote in as our PM.

Joking aside, that belief is worrying given that it means the standards for acceptable behaviour in British politics is allowed to sink every lower. Will it reach the stage where nothing Johnson does will ever break ministerial code, be wrong, or unacceptable?

Joking aside, that belief is worrying given that it means the standards for acceptable behaviour in British politics is allowed to sink every lower. Will it reach the stage where nothing Johnson does will ever break ministerial code, be wrong, or unacceptable?

It's not happening in a vacuum - the entire world and international relations are reshaping under our feet. It's just a shame the UK appears to have chosen the 21st century equivalent of the Axis, rather than the Allies for the coming holocaust. Because as any Germans, or Italians, or Japanese (less so, admittedly) will tell you, being on the side of evil didn't do them any favours back in the day.

And it's not use looking to the US - which is effectively a single continent on it's own. The vision of a tripartite land mass espoused in "Man In The High Castle" wasn't accidental.

DrBlackbird
Ah, I knew that my links would provide Clav some material to look through and cherry pick/find fault with.

I barely read any of it. On second glance I see it's not a reliable source;

A new account from the Labour Party tracked 80 examples of Boris Johnson’s ‘lies and dishonesty’ in just over 100 days.

the meticulously researched article...

In contrast stands Jeremy Corbyn. His continued honesty really is ‘revolutionary’.

Sorry, but which £1 trillion are you referring to?

Read the thread to find out who originally said it. My point was that a Leaver would jump in and make excuses.

And Bingo, a Leaver jumps in and does exactly that.

I am quite sure that if Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband had been sacked once for lying we would have heard about it many many times over and this would have been given as a reason why they were not suitable to be PM.

But a man who is a habitual liar gets a free pass because he's a Tory. The honourable ones may be thankful that he chased them out of the party, because it's clear that they are not tarred with his same brush.

Editorial in the current Economist says that Britain's only hope of holding the Union together is to stop Boris Johnson lying

Scottish independence imminent on its way then

Peregrina
Read the thread to find out who originally said it.

I did read the thread - I deliberately replied to you because you mentioned my name in your post.

I am quite sure that if Jeremy Corbyn or Ed Miliband had been sacked once for lying we would have heard about it many many times over.

Perhaps Jeremy Corbyn should have been sacked for lying;

Labour councillor accuses Jeremy Corbyn of 'lying' over party's attempts to tackle anti-semitism.

www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-councillor-accuses-jeremy-corbyn-of-lying-over-partys-attempts-to-tackle-antisemitism

Do you think Jeremy Corbyn's continued honesty really was ‘revolutionary’ ? The Sun newspaper [and Full Fact] didn't think so during the 2019 general election campaign;

www.thesun.co.uk/news/10438563/general-election-2019-corbyns-leaked-documents-nhs-debunk/

Boris Johnson was sacked the second time for lying about an extramarital affair - John Major concealed an extramarital affair while serving as a government minister. In retrospect, do you think John Major was unsuitable to serve as Prime Minister? He must have lied frequently to those around him during the four year affair - why was he allowed a prominent role in the Remain campaign?

The honourable ones may be thankful that he chased them out of the party

Are you including the honourable ones who tweeted about body bags as a scare tactic?

I do know of at least one Tory who was disgusted with Major when his affair with Curry became public, especially when he had gone on about standards in public life. But Major hadn't been sacked at all, and certainly not for a second time before he became PM. Nor as far as we know, was he a serial adulterer who didn't know or wouldn't say how many children he had. As one of the architects of the GFA, whatever flaws his private life had, he deserves huge credit for that alone.

I personally don't know who tweeted about body bags or in what context.

Jeremy Corbyn did get the push from his party. Johnson hasn't done yet, although I don't doubt that when the time comes the Tory party will be ruthless at putting the knife in. They seem to take a particular delight in a good bloodletting but it's probably a bit too soon, they haven't recovered from defenestrating May yet.