Westministenders: This is not the Brexit we voted for

[ListeningQuietly]

UK Shellfish industry destroyed because our inshore waters are not clean enough
Welsh Ports on their knees because the Land Bridge has found another route
Horticulture seed producers lost all of their mainland EU customers

Antique dealers lost access to their suppliers
Small businesses being told (by UK Govt) to relocate to the EU to avoid red tape
Brits in the EU discovering that stopping Free Movement applies to them too
Northern Ireland in Unionist flames because there is a border between them and Great Britain, but not the Republic
And the UK has still not taken control of its borders

Brexit is shaping up as predicted, but none of those who voted for it seem to have what they wanted

They must be rattled That's the only time we get dumpsters

It was the EU that has stopped vaccine exports.

It was the UK that refused to export any in the first place...

It can do no wrong and the UK can do no right.

You clearly don’t read the discussions on these threads. But plop on in with your inaccurate comments any time, feel free.

Final paragraph from AuldAlliance's last link

A UK government spokesperson said: “The United Kingdom is the most successful political and economic union the world has ever seen … Strengthening the United Kingdom is at the heart of everything we do and we are working alongside the devolved administrations to establish new ways of regular, meaningful and effective cooperation so that we continue to deliver for people right across the United Kingdom.”

Eh? On what assumptions?
I would grant that of its time the British Empire was successful economically, if not politically, but that cannot be said for the United Kingdom, which is not quite 100 years old in its present form and has been a declining power since 1945.

As for strengthening the UK - with violence once more breaking out in NI this is the last thing the Government is doing. Johnson won't sit down with his opposite Irish number, it took him four days to even make a tweet about the situation. He hasn't been to visit. These are not the actions of a Governement strengthening a union; these are the actions of a Government which appears not to care about one part of the union.

You can post what you like on here , if it makes you feel better, but we are out and not going back

Yep. Out. Well done. Now what? I guess we just sit in the corner and sulk till the big boys let us play again? That'll show them.

"The United Kingdom is the most successful political and economic union the world has ever seen …"

By whose definition? And successful for whom?

To use one example: Scotland, the only country to discover oil and end up poorer . It helped pay for the infrastructure that made London/the South East the power house that it now is (and which unbalanced the entire UK economy ). And no Sovereign Wealth Fund built up (even for the UK as a whole) for when the oil runs out or we make the choice to stop using it - unlike Norway

@Pyewackect

Brexit is a done deal. And has growing support in light of the hostility shown by the EU to the UK.

Take a look at what’s happening in Europe for an indication of why people are glad to be out.

You can post what you like on here , if it makes you feel better, but we are out and not going back.

Is this the new "you lost, get over it".

Shortly followed by "why aren't you making it work?"...

It was the EU that has stopped vaccine exports
But posters on here see the EU through rose coloured specs. It can do no wrong and the UK can do no right

Jesus!
The UK just got the Moderna vaccine from EU vaccines, the EU has not stopped the UK getting a single vaccine.

Now it looks like India will start stop exports and begin vaccinating its own population & not before time.

You need to look at your own posts to see that, in your eyes, the EU can do no right and the UK no wrong before you pull up others on their views.

Hows the bee keeping?

If Brexit were a success there would be absolutely no need for the Leavers to tell us this. So far their attempts are

a) the UK has done better than the EU with vaccines, therefore Brexit is a success
b) we have a trade deal with Japan (as a substitute for a good deal with the EU) so therefore Brexit is a success
c) the Brexiters don't like some EU politicians, therefore Brexit is a success.

Not - we no longer have food banks, there is good quality work for everyone, everyone is decently housed, the NHS is no longer on its knees, it's fully staffed with sufficient hospital beds and good domiciliary services, the economy is booming. All things which will tell us that this is a successful country, which in part would be attributable to Brexit, not 'Oh look, someone else has messed up'.

Jasjas, Italy, which is still in the EU, stopped a shipment of vaccine that Australia had bought and paid for.
Not sure what bees have got to do with it.

Bees - allowing nicotinoids.

Although I gather that they weren't necessary in the end because a cold snap put paid to some sort of aphid.

Italy stops a vaccine going to another country - bad EU.
India stops vaccine being exported - not a peep.

The UK has seen the biggest % drop in the Covid infection rate from its peak in January of all the G20 countries, followed by Israel in 2nd place.
Interestingly Spain lies 5th on percentage drop.

So Italy stopped it. Not the EU

Surprise, surprise, sovereign countries within the EU make sovereign choices

Next?

Caveat: I have no idea about the accuracy or otherwise of what Italy has or hasn't done regarding exporting vaccines to Australia. But the point still stands: sovereign country makes sovereign choice.

Peregrina....the derogation for use of the neonicitinoid thiamethoxam on sugar beet in Lincolnshire was the first one allowed by the UK since it was banned in the EU in 2016.
For the record the EU have used this derogation 67 times. 13 EU countries also used the same derogation for their sugar beet crops last year.
Check your facts before posting.

Peregrina....if you are interested in derogations for neonicitinoid, just ask.
Do you want to know which EU countries are using them on which crops?
And the EU allow their use in glasshouses in Southern Europe which use bumblebee colonies for pollination. So the bumblebees are killed. The EU have only banned them for outdoor use.

Surprise, surprise, sovereign countries within the EU make sovereign choices

Unlike that "most successful political and economic union the world has ever seen" , the UK, where the sovereign countries within it are dictated to by the central government.

Which is why a lot of us think an independent Scotland as a member of the EU is a pretty good idea.

My facts such as they were were not wrong. What was the connection with bees. Which was that there is concern about their effect on bees.

So a stock Leaver response - the EU allowed them. Not, the UK found a better way to tackle the problem - although I gather that it did because the weather helped.

No yellowspanner, I am not going to join your EU slagfest. I don't doubt that EU bee keepers are just as pissed off with neonicotinoids as UK ones are.

What I want to hear from the Leavers is how being out of the EU has enabled the UK to adopt a more environmentally sound policy, which it was somehow prevented from doing before. We keep hearing that this is going to be one of the bonuses - no sign of it happening yet.

Italy, which is still in the EU, stopped a shipment of vaccine

The inference being that it was membership of the EU that prompted this mean action from a sovereign state? Come on, that’s just ridiculous.

If in doubt/on the back foot the fact free around here seem to resort increasingly to simply chucking the following keywords into any debate, be it about NI, vaccines, price of fish etc:

"EU"
"VdL"
"Macron"
"France"
"French"

All in the hope of generating a smokescreen.

There's no requirement for any of the keywords or phrases having any relevance to the subject being discussed.

@yellowspanner

Peregrina....if you are interested in derogations for neonicitinoid, just ask. Do you want to know which EU countries are using them on which crops? And the EU allow their use in glasshouses in Southern Europe which use bumblebee colonies for pollination. So the bumblebees are killed. The EU have only banned them for outdoor use.

So there are certain legal requirements covering use of certain agrochemicals in the EU which can be waived under certain circumstances and don’t apply in others. What is remotely odd about that? How is other countries using the law as they see fit in some way a gotcha? It’s puzzling.

Anyway,we should take the rattled visits as a compliment

One day maybe they'll add something constructive

LouiseCollins28 - you are the exception as your contributions usually are thoughtful and add to the discussion even if I don't often agree with you

I second that as far as Louise goes - she's about the only Leaver we can have a proper debate with.

@jasjas1973

It was the EU that has stopped vaccine exports But posters on here see the EU through rose coloured specs. It can do no wrong and the UK can do no right

Jesus!
The UK just got the Moderna vaccine from EU vaccines, the EU has not stopped the UK getting a single vaccine.

Now it looks like India will start stop exports and begin vaccinating its own population & not before time.

You need to look at your own posts to see that, in your eyes, the EU can do no right and the UK no wrong before you pull up others on their views.

Hows the bee keeping?

the EU hasn't stopped the UK getting a single vaccine, sure about that?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-thierry-breton-b1829471.html

Thats AZ agreeing to for fill its contract to the EU surely? no more than what the UK has held AZ to.

I meant in regard to the EUs earlier threats to halt exports destined for UK.

Happy to stand corrected if i ve got this wrong though.