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Brexit

Westministers : Saving the Union

954 replies

RedToothBrush · 16/02/2021 23:26

Apparently we need a tunnel. Just like we needed the £53 million failed Garden Bridge.

Nice little earner for anyone involved.

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Clavinova · 17/02/2021 18:32

The Highline...Amazing project, turning something that was a blot on the landscape into something a beauty.

I don't disagree - but the estimated cost is £35 million to £50 million.

Bee0808 · 17/02/2021 18:35

🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿🐿

TheElementsSong · 17/02/2021 18:38

🐿 Aluminium is one of the most common elements on Earth, more common even than iron. However, purifying aluminium from its compounds was initially so difficult and expensive that this metal was once more valuable than gold. The rich and powerful treasured its silvery shininess and incredible lightness - it became popular as elite jewellery and it’s said that Emperor Napoleon III served his most important guests with aluminium cutlery (lesser guests had to make do with gold).

In the late 1880s, scientists discovered how to purify loads and loads of aluminium by electrolysis, and now it is the cheap mundane stuff of cooking foil and drinks cans.

Therefore, the enormous direct and indirect costs of ToryBrexitannianNationalPlague are mere trifling bits of fluff to be waved away, whilst any costs not dedicated to the glory thereof, are crippling evil weights upon the True BeLeaver Patriots. 🐿

mathanxiety · 17/02/2021 18:42

From what I understand, there are no extra checks on exports from NI to GB - only GB to NI - therefore a tunnel would attract investment in manufacturing, (agriculture?) and tourism in NI.

@Clavinova
You mean like all the tunnels that tourists visiting Ireland use, and the many businesses/ multinationals that are attracted there, and all the tunnels for agriculture and agricultural products?

The biggest tunnel goes all the way to the US, but there hundreds of others. Tunnels all over the world...

PhoenixandtheRug · 17/02/2021 18:49

I'm in NI and we find this talk of a tunnel absolutely ridiculous. We do NOT want it. We have no desire to be connected to Britain that way and also we need our infrastructure inside the island fixed first, such as railways West of the Bann and not just in places where unionists traditionally held a majority. We know very well this is Garden Bridge Mark 2 from Johnson. The only people falling for it are the idiots in the DUP.

mathanxiety · 17/02/2021 18:53

Is Alan Dunlop a dreamer, or is he shamelessly touting for business?

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/aug/08/communities.uknews
The Mole Man of Hackney.
A cautionary tale.

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2021 19:00

If Brexit is done, why has Lord Frost just been made a Cabinet minister effective 1st March?

This also means there is too many Cabinet Ministers on the payroll unless there is about to be a reshuffle.

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DGRossetti · 17/02/2021 19:02

@mathanxiety

Is Alan Dunlop a dreamer, or is he shamelessly touting for business?

www.theguardian.com/society/2006/aug/08/communities.uknews
The Mole Man of Hackney.
A cautionary tale.

We'll start a new life ... here, underground ...

The Artilleryman [played by David Essex] - in Jeff Waynes War of the Worlds.

He was a bit of a Boris too, as I recall.

mathanxiety · 17/02/2021 19:03

Wrt the complaint about the Camden Highline - the estimated cost is £35 million to £50 million.

Tut, tut, pennywise and pound foolish, there, @Clavinova.

The NY Highline cost $153m.

www.zdnet.com/article/high-line-park-attracts-2-billion-in-new-developments-other-cities-follow/

Not only does the city take care of a eyesore, but the popularity of High Line has brought in an estimated $2 billion in new developments, the New York Times reports.

The Camden project has the potential to add astronomical value in surrounding areas if it is part of an overall redevelopment plan and accompanying framework.

DGRossetti · 17/02/2021 19:04

@RedToothBrush

If Brexit is done, why has Lord Frost just been made a Cabinet minister effective 1st March?

This also means there is too many Cabinet Ministers on the payroll unless there is about to be a reshuffle.

Brexit has only just begun. There are loads of areas that need deals.

Interesting that Farage is now saying we need to leave the "EU human rights" thingammybob.

FatCatThinCat · 17/02/2021 19:05

Placemarking cat.

Westministers : Saving the Union
TatianaBis · 17/02/2021 19:08
Gin
RedToothBrush · 17/02/2021 19:23

Sebastian Payne @SebastianEPayne
NEW: David Frost is joining Boris Johnson’s Cabinet! The peer has been appointed a minister at the Cabinet Office, effective March 1.

Frost will also chair the partnership council overseeing the UK-EU trade deal and oversee reform to "maximise on the opportunities of Brexit"

David Frost has had four jobs this year and it’s only February:

- Chief Brexit negotiator
- National Security Advisor (never took up role)
- No10 advisor on Brexit/International policy
- Minister at the Cabinet Office

Stewart Wood @StewartWood
So David Frost will "take forward our relationship with the EU after Brexit" not just as an envoy, but with Cabinet rank. Many congratulations to him. And many commiserations to the Foreign Office, who used to run foreign policy,

One of the universal truths of being Prime Minister: creating special jobs to solve clashes between members of your team ALWAYS creates new clashes between members of your team that will require sackings to solve them.

John Rentoul @JohnRentoul
From @JGForsyth on the Frost-Gove mini-shuffle

Westministers : Saving the Union
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RedToothBrush · 17/02/2021 19:24

So it seems....

... there is much political intrigue on this one.

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wewereliars · 17/02/2021 19:25

Glad to hear your news DGR, best of luck

Clavinova · 17/02/2021 19:29

mathanxiety
Wrt the complaint about the Camden Highline - the estimated cost is £35 million to £50 million.

I did point out that the Camden Highline would be temporary;

Why is the Camden Highline temporary?
Network Rail own the infrastructure the Camden Highline would re-use, and they may need it for rail use at an unknown point in the future to increase capacity on the North London Line.

The NY Highline cost $153m.
Not only does the city take care of a eyesore, but the popularity of High Line has brought in an estimated $2 billion in new developments, the New York Times reports.

You were in favour of Boris Johnson's Garden Bridge then? (NB - I liked the idea at the time.) Sadiq Khan scrapped the Garden Bridge but he is endorsing the Camden Highline.

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2021 19:31

lisa o'carroll @lisaocarroll
David Frost to take over from Michael Gove as joint chair of the UK-EU joint committee. He cements his position as the most important post Brexit figure taking the role as joint chair of the partnership council, which is the top political structure post Brexit.

Simon Usherwood @Usherwood
Tidies this up, but Gove only announced as chair yesterday, which suggests Frost's elevation hasn't been long in the making

Most interesting...

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SwedishEdith · 17/02/2021 19:36

Sam Coates Sky @SamCoatesSky
But equally, MPs believe the Michael Gove had a totally different approach to Lord Frost - compromiser vs hardline

Why is Frost so hardline? He wasn't but now he is. Did someone laugh at him?

I was thinking he's quite old and looks ready for retirement but he's younger than me! Very unhealthy looking.

Clavinova · 17/02/2021 19:38

mathanxiety

More dreamers in Scotland;

A team from Heriot-Watt University in Edinburgh has been working on the concept, which involves the creation of a "submerged floating tube bridge" (SFTB). This would be anchored to the sea bed and tethered to pontoons on the surface.

Journey time sounds good to me;

Cars could either drive through the tube or use a shuttle train, cutting the current two-and-a-half-hour ferry journey to 40 minutes.

www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/floating-underwater-tunnel-proposed-as-alternative-irish-sea-link-17-12-2020/

borntobequiet · 17/02/2021 19:52

I expect by the time you’ve managed to say submerged floating tube bridge the damn thing will have slipped its tethers and popped up to the surface.
Hence why the use of SFTB is necessary, although it looks as though it should have a special Mumsnet interpretation so as to to baffle newcomers to the site. They will wonder what the F stands for.

Peregrina · 17/02/2021 20:57

So Frost helped to negotiate Johnson's bad deal, and is now going to continue in that role. If he failed before, why is he now going to be successful?

However there does seem to be some sort of intrigue going on.
For me, roll on the Scottish vote for Independence - that will put the cat among the Tory pigeons.

mathanxiety · 17/02/2021 21:16

@Clavinova
Why is the Camden Highline temporary?
Network Rail own the infrastructure the Camden Highline would re-use, and they may need it for rail use at an unknown point in the future to increase capacity on the North London Line.

This is a far cry from the confident assertion that 'the Camden line would be temporary'.
A 25 year lease is envisioned.

"Not only does the city take care of a eyesore, but the popularity of High Line has brought in an estimated $2 billion in new developments, the New York Times reports."

You were in favour of Boris Johnson's Garden Bridge then? (NB - I liked the idea at the time.) Sadiq Khan scrapped the Garden Bridge but he is endorsing the Camden Highline.
Did Johnson's bridge take care of an eyesore?
Did it promise estimated £gazillions in local development?

(Did the Garden Bridge Trust spend £53 million on various activities associated with planning that will never be seen again?)

The Camden Highline will be located on land. It will link to existing cycling and pedestrian routes (Regent's Canal, for instance). Virtually all the infrastructure is already built. All the existing network will be able to stand again on its own if the railway ever needs the infrastructure again.

The Garden Bridge otoh was to be located over the river (being a bridge and all). It was envisioned as an expensive white elephant with no relationship or benefit to the localities on either end. On the south bank a public green space would have been bulldozed to make room for a commercial building. The land on which the building stood was to be leased. Many mature trees were to be cut down on both banks of the river. And that is before we even start on the muddy finances and the ever-rising cost estimates and the questions about the value the project would bring to anyone.

www.camdenhighline.com/our-route
The advantage of building on existing vacant infrastructure is that we’re already in the heart of Camden. The network of walking connections from the Highline encompasses all the main destinations in Camden Town and King’s Cross, from the view at Primrose Hill to the new district and transport connections at King’s Cross.

Many ask ‘why build the Highline when Regent’s Canal connects the same places?’. We love the canal, but this stretch is too busy; the narrow towpath was built for a single horse, not for cyclists and groups of walkers to share. We see the Highline as complimentary, relieving pressure on the canal as well as being a distinct and beautiful new walking route of its own.

Peregrina · 17/02/2021 21:24

Clavinova will be agin it because
a) It isn't a scheme initiated by Johnson giving him the opportunity to bung taxpayers money to his chums
b) It isn't doing down the EU.

Potentially the scheme sounds to have some merit.

RedToothBrush · 17/02/2021 21:25

@Peregrina

So Frost helped to negotiate Johnson's bad deal, and is now going to continue in that role. If he failed before, why is he now going to be successful?

However there does seem to be some sort of intrigue going on.
For me, roll on the Scottish vote for Independence - that will put the cat among the Tory pigeons.

I saw it suggested that Gove needs Frost (not him) to own it.

But the dynamics here don't look like that.

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