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Brexit

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.

956 replies

RedToothBrush · 31/01/2021 13:58

An 'interesting' week. To say the least.

It has highlighted the purpose, point and weaknesses of the EU. It has revealled that the Irish Border is an ongoing issue which can not be ignored. Not only is it causing shortages in NI but it also reminds us that a zero covid strategy for the UK can not be managed unilaterally; we are not New Zealand.

It shows up the changing geo-politics of leaving. We have applied to join the Asia-Pacific free trade pact just a day after Macron told us to chose out allies and reminded us that geography and history have always tied our fate to France.

The epic fuck up of the EU has lead a rallying cry of support for leaving... but covid is currently hiding much of the reality of the implications of Brexit which will yet come out in the wash.

Brexit and Covid are tied together as conjoined twins of economic disaster though. Once restrictions start to lift, the shit will start to hit the fan. The efforts on where to aportion blame will start but it won't be on Brexit. We've known this for some time. Brexit no longer is relevant. Except of course it is. But who is writing the winner's narrative? Things are as they have always been. There is no squirrel. The squirrel is thinking that Brexit and Covid are separate things when those in charge don't.

In terms of the vaccine suggest, I think its worth reflecting on why it was successful. Johnson played the vaccine procurement like a gambler, who bet on all the horses in order to ensure we got a winner. Throwing the kitchen sink at a problem which shut the entire economy down was always the safe option. Especially when it was also a pretty certain bet that there would be unequal rollout and a shortage when one was found. If you think about it in those terms, it easier to see how this has been a success for the government: if only one vaccine was successful, we'd be grateful we'd invested in so many options. If all the vaccines came in good we'd end up in a good place. It was a win:win strategy, and one that was not that hard to do. We now find that whilst we were cutting the International Aid Budget we were also working on soft power that excess vaccine stocks and production capability bring... I note here its actually much harder to pull off successfully if you are considerably larger like the EU because of the sheer numbers involved - the dynamics always favoured the UK and I think this probably was something the UK was aware of and was worked into strategic planning. Other things will be much harder to get such easy political wins on - not least because they still involve the economics of geography and that being smaller is typically a weakness not a strength in trading - vaccines and supply shortages are the ultimate exception not the rule. The rule is proven by the EU's politicking and the threat of a vaccine trade war.

Thus the Tory Party have seen Brexit and Covid as being intrinsically linked for some time. I don't think everyone else has quite managed to wrap their head around the fact that its near impossible at this stage to disentangle to two because of this mentality.

This current batch of Tories are disaster capitalists after all, and the twin of Brexit and Covid is a gift to their ambition.

I'll just remind you what the goal really is here. Remember Johnson's speech at the Tory Party Conference in October:
www.conservatives.com/news/boris-johnson-read-the-prime-ministers-keynote-speech-in-full

We have been through too much frustration and hardship just to settle for the status quo ante – to think that life can go on as it was before the plague; and it will not. Because history teaches us that events of this magnitude – wars, famines, plagues; events that affect the vast bulk of humanity, as this virus has – they do not just come and go.

They are more often than not the trigger for an acceleration of social and economic change, because we human beings will not simply content ourselves with a repair job.

He is fully signed up to the Cummings/Gove school of thought of burn it down and rebuild afresh.

The idea that he cares about sorting out and repairing the problems Brexit brings, miss the ultimate point: He doesn't want to.

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prettybird · 06/02/2021 10:15

Interesting article on who needs whom most: starting from the perspective of Brexit but then moving on to Indy.

https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2021/02/05/on-erasmus-and-langoustine/

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 10:20

If you want me to photograph the horse and hound article I can - I read it the other night abs was full of rage - if the fucking listened - we wouldn't be in this mess. The William Funnels of the horse world will be fine - it's the people starting out - the leisure end of the horse world who will be completely screwed.....

Peregrina · 06/02/2021 10:21

The William Funnells will still vote Tory.

DrBlackbird · 06/02/2021 10:33

notimagin yes that might be it, although he had a negative covid test result with him and when he returned to France all he had to do was show his (newly refreshed) covid negative test to be waived through. So doesn't sound like the questioning was due to that. Plus, if border personnel are going to start checking paperwork and the gov't knew that they were going to start checking paperwork, why not hire more personnel some months ago? Creating jobs that are needed during a time when 800,000 people have been laid off could have been a real vote winner.

Apart from that, Marina Hyde has made the world at least the US and the UK make sense to me again. Now, I can let go of all my despair wondering why so many of the British public voted for Brexit or voted for 'serial liar' Johnson or why so many people in the US actually voted for a 2nd term (!) of Trump. Seriously, I feel so much better. Thank you Marina.

Of course there is the now fresh despair that going by this formula, Starmer will never get into No 10 Sad

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/feb/05/britons-drama-keir-starmer-labour-leader-competence

Eve · 06/02/2021 10:43

@Peregrina

The William Funnells will still vote Tory.
This is on the jumping forums, still lots of its the greedy EU forcing the extra charges & time, buy British horses ( not enough in this country & land to graze the numbers in too expensive) let’s support Bristol Shows (...4 weeks in south of Spain in Feb v’s ankle deep mud in a lorry somewhere near Luton)

I’m waiting til the price of feed & supplements starts to take hold on top of British wet summer hay shortages.

Eve · 06/02/2021 10:44

😳 British shows - not Bristol

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 10:53

Plus @eve I heard from a pretty reliable source (but is horsey gossip so always taken with a pinch of salt) - who was talking to a friend on the continent- that the sunshine tour is not as profitable for a lot of these SJ from the Uk. Because of the pandemic the really high profile shows (global champions tour etc) not happening- those top riders maybe not heading to Florida, so to keep their horses going heading to the sunshine tour, where they wouldn't normally go. They and there horses are of course a different calibre- so where the second rung riders would make good money winning classes - they aren't getting a look in.....so huge increase in costs to get there and your chances of winning low - not great prospects really.....
Same friend feeds a German feed to his horses and has stockpiled quite abit as he is waiting for supply issues to hit....

Peregrina · 06/02/2021 11:05

But does it matter if the EU is being greedy and forcing extra charges upon us? Wasn't the whole Brexit stance that we didn't need the EU, we could go it alone?

Eve · 06/02/2021 11:08

mrslaughan

Saw a post this week of a lorry of horses taking 7 hours to get through checks in France - that’s with correct paperwork!

I don’t think horse owners know where most of the raw ingredients in feed come from - almost no Lucerne grown in UK, it’s mainly from EU.

Peregrina · 06/02/2021 11:15

Could we grow lucerne in the UK? After all, we have had horses in this country for centuries, so must have fed them ourselves once. Weren't horses native to Mongolia or somewhere else in Central Asia and brought to us by the Romans?

Chersfrozenface · 06/02/2021 12:01

@Peregrina

Could we grow lucerne in the UK? After all, we have had horses in this country for centuries, so must have fed them ourselves once. Weren't horses native to Mongolia or somewhere else in Central Asia and brought to us by the Romans?
Wild horses came to Britain when it was still attached to the Continent and prehistoric peoples hunted them.

Domestication had begun in Britain by 2500 BC and the Celtic upper classes had heaps of chariots. Indeed, the Celts had at least one horse goddess, Epona (which means, basically, the great mare).

They also buried high status individuals with chariots and horses. The most recent burials discovered that I can think of were in Yorkshire and Pembrokeshire, in 2019, I think.

But until recently they just grazed grass, like their wild forebears. Supplementary feeding started with oats and has developed from there.

Oh, and IBERS at Aberystwyth University has been working on lucerne, I'm fairly sure.

notimagain · 06/02/2021 12:17

he had a negative covid test result with him and when he returned to France all he had to do was show his (newly refreshed) covid negative test to be waived through.

In my (fairly frequent) experience of the French Border police at my port of entry they have always manually checked documents, even for Brits, even when we were in the EU, so I think they've taken the recent extra checking caused by Covid (of tests and attestations in their stride) generally in their stride and generally delays have been minimal.

OTOH over the years the UK side has increasingly relied on the e-gates and once they were shut (a few weeks ago?) I suspect the 100% manual checking has caused problems..

if border personnel are going to start checking paperwork and the gov't knew that they were going to start checking paperwork, why not hire more personnel some months ago?

You'll have to ask HMG..the closure of e-gates is I think quite recent and a result of Covid not Brexit. If it's any consolation I'm aware of several colleagues of various nationalities (EU, non EU including Brits) who have found entering the UK over the last few weeks a real PITA, and the queries and delays have been down to establishing travel history/point of origin with regard to the UK red list, rarely if at all down to "settled status" or anything that could be regarded as Brexit related.

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 12:26

Interesting use of rhetoric- it would be laughable if it wasn't so dire

www.lcdviews.com/michael-gove-says-u-k-will-use-its-veto-over-eu-laws-on-trade/

DGRossetti · 06/02/2021 12:40

@prettybird

We've talked on these threads before about the entirely foreseeable impact on the movement of horses.

Here's a Brexit voting show jumper expressing buyer's remorse.

I can't read the whole article but you get the gist from the intro.

[[https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/plus/opinion/william-funnell-travelling-horses-brexit-736727?fbclid=IwAR139ESiZ6cywRB9ztZWIN4iGB7fkB0Y1fflhMzvs2d0FMIlXzXYLeNw8Mc]]

I actually voted leave during the referendum but in hindsight, if I’d realised the full rigamarole it would cause, I certainly would have thought twice.

That'll teach you not to be so fucking stupid in future then.

DGRossetti · 06/02/2021 12:46

[quote mrslaughan]Interesting use of rhetoric- it would be laughable if it wasn't so dire

www.lcdviews.com/michael-gove-says-u-k-will-use-its-veto-over-eu-laws-on-trade/[/quote]
Which Tory numbnuts got really excised about discovering that the UK leaving the EU meant we didn't get a vote anymore ? Nadine "get my shotgun" Dorries rings a bell Hmm

meantime, the shellfish industry eradication seems to have arisen because after the UK negotiated the future relationship, the EU had a vote (without the UK) and changed the rules. Which I suspect is going to happen a lot in the coming years. I hope Michael Gove likes writing letters.

DGRossetti · 06/02/2021 12:54

All of of the suggestions for improvement here would be implemented at a single stroke of joining the customs union.

www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/brexit-wreaking-havoc-businesses-uk-eu-borders-tariffs-b918659.html

DGRossetti · 06/02/2021 13:34

I feel like I'm doing Clavs job for them now.

www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1393462/brexit-news-cadbury-plant-germany-uk-bournville-dairy-milk-plant-uk-economy

Sorry Merkel! Cadbury to move Dairy Milk production from Germany to UK - £15m investment

(contd)

If it tastes as shit as it does now, I won't be buying it. Best thing palm oil in chocolate has done is help me lose 4 stone.

ListeningQuietly · 06/02/2021 14:07

My local shop had pictures of boxes of food to cover up an empty shelf .....

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 14:26

Clouds and silver linings spring to mind.....

Westminstenders: Disaster Capitalism.
Eve · 06/02/2021 14:35

@Peregrina

Could we grow lucerne in the UK? After all, we have had horses in this country for centuries, so must have fed them ourselves once. Weren't horses native to Mongolia or somewhere else in Central Asia and brought to us by the Romans?
We could , but we import 70m tonnes of the stuff annually, yield is 4-8tonnes per hectare. That’s a lot of land! It’s also needs sun for best yield so probably only suitable for Southern areas and it needs investment in the relevant equipment to harvest it,
ListeningQuietly · 06/02/2021 16:09

MrsLaughan and Eve
I have to admit that I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for anybody in the Equine business who voted Brexit in 2016 or Tory in 2017 and 2019.

They already know the rules on shipping horses in and out of the EU
(with US, Australia, Canada, Middle East, Far East racing) so how on earth they thought they would be better off after Brexit
shows that they are
arrogant
and / or
stupid

SabrinaThwaite · 06/02/2021 16:24

Given that William Funnell called his horse Billy Orange, I think we can guess his political stance (or else he's really, really thick).

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 16:25

Esp William Funnel who has a big breeding business - so would look to export further a field than just Europe.

Tbh I was gobsmacked he voted Brexit.

Friend who I breeds and and imports from Europe didn't as he was worried/certain that this is exactly what would happen

mrslaughan · 06/02/2021 16:31

I think you may be reading too much into his horses name...... he was after all a chestnut ...... horses do end up with odd names .