Westministenders: The Beginning of Negotiations

[RedToothBrush]

Transition has a few hours left.

Then negotiations start and trade stops.

Far from being over, there are huge numbers of issues that lay unresolved.

And businesses both now in the UK and EU will cease to trade with each other just because the red tape is such a pain.

So whilst people will celebrate and think things are 'done' that just shows how much people are paying attention.

It will be interesting to see people gradually realising what has been lost...

@ListeningQuietly

DGR Is that a realised crystallised gain or just the price rising ? I have a couple of FB friends who post about Bitcoin every hour but things are only worth what you can sell them for - into a format where they become usable.

I agree that blockchains should be MUCH more widely used
but the carbon footprint of Bitcoin is horrific
and I suspect its a very frothy bubble

When I last checked my balance it was around £200 - ages ago. It's now saying £1,000 - so I guess if I could be arsed, I'd get that less fees.

But I started in my last job (remit: IT strategy and future watching) with £15 to get what the buzz was. This was before that guy lost his hard drive. I pretty much dismissed the cryptocurrency aspect as being a scammers paradise. However the blockchain is much more interesting when you realise (as very few do) that it's effectively a state machine. Hence smart contracts and any number of decentralised applications.

Bitcoin itself has flaws beyond my complete comprehension. However I do subscribe to the suggestion it was a one-man-show, due to the flaws.

Things like Ethereum etc etc are better instantiated.

I can still knock up a contract in Solidity, which might be a future calling, since I remain on the employment shelf.

However, as will oil killing nuclear, there are a lot of vested interests in blockchains not taking off. Meaning we're back to having to wait for a lot of old people to join the choir invisible before people start taking notice.

it’s a bit clumsy to say remainers are 48% annoying me and leavers are 52% driving me to tear my hair out

Ah, possibly you are over thinking it, as i cant how i was suggesting that

I meant more....

Some leave voters are racist....not actual percentages

Key word being ‘some’

But I’ll leave it there

Ive been saying it for 4 fucking years and its not worked 😀

I have been watching the blockchain development with interest. I can see it taking off in Africa and parts of Asia during this decade where the population is younger and there are fewer on-the-ground institutions to offer an easier alternative.

it’s a bit clumsy to say remainers are 48% annoying me and leavers are 52% driving me to tear my hair out

The whole 48/52 split really needs to be forgotten. nearly 5 years on from the vote then a few tens of thousands of older voters will have died. Which would reduce the %age for Leave. And by the same token, 5 years worth of new voters (now 23 years old) have entered the frame, which would tend to up the Remain %age.

And that's just from the people who voted. We have no idea what people who didn't vote might feel now.

@TheABC

I have been watching the blockchain development with interest. I can see it taking off in Africa and parts of Asia during this decade where the population is younger and there are fewer on-the-ground institutions to offer an easier alternative.

I met a few NZ and Australian lawyers who were sniffing around it as a simple way to secure property registration with the state.

IBM were working on a system for automated international shipping, and gemstone provenance when I had a chance to pop to Hursley.

The main problem is that people fail to grasp that it is the blockchain itself doing the work, and (much more important, it seems) no one "owns" the blockchain. The whole point is that it's decentralised and public. The exact opposite of (for example) any banks ledgers. Which you only trust because you're told to, not because you can audit them (like a blockchain).

Brexit is done.
Its over.
Finished.
The UK has left both the EU and the Single Market.

The focus now has to be on what the UK's future relationship with Europe will be.

There will not be another referendum - even the Tories are not dumb enough to try that again.

The most likely is incremental movement in spirals and circles
with constant negotiation of the Swiss sort

and IMHO it is incumbent upon those of us who did not want this
to get behind where we are and make it work back to a proper relationship with the EU
so that our kids are not penalised too badly.

We cannot rely on the politicians

we have to do it ourselves .....

@ListeningQuietly

Brexit is done. Its over. Finished. The UK has left both the EU and the Single Market.

The focus now has to be on what the UK's future relationship with Europe will be.

There will not be another referendum - even the Tories are not dumb enough to try that again.

The most likely is incremental movement in spirals and circles
with constant negotiation of the Swiss sort

and IMHO it is incumbent upon those of us who did not want this
to get behind where we are and make it work back to a proper relationship with the EU
so that our kids are not penalised too badly.

We cannot rely on the politicians

we have to do it ourselves .....

Well said

Has this been posted about the UK's ?

Note especially the comments about Gibraltar and how quiet Johnson is keeping about it, and why.

Johnson is on Marr tomorrow. Shall we take bets on how easy that will be for him. Maybe Laura K will give him tips

@wherearemychickens

This is an interesting example of changes people are seeing:

twitter.com/uk_domain_names/status/1345154426978361344

I wonder how long HMRC are going to persist with the new VAT arrangements?

I had the same with Cocooncenter. No free shipping anymore on bigger orders, shipping now starts at £11.50 instead of £6 and they won't ship the brand I buy from there outside the EEA.

This is an interesting (and compelling) take on the 'way back' to the EU. Not through a referendum but through the framework set out in the agreement. The EU have led us to an open door when we are ready to walk through it.
twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1344592194930438144

@bellinisurge

Johnson is on Marr tomorrow. Shall we take bets on how easy that will be for him. Maybe Laura K will give him tips

I do not watch politicians on TV any more Any of them EVER I try to avoid the radio too

I am politically homeless and am one of the few people DELIGHTED that there will not be a GE for while.

I could never vote Tory
The Libdems and Greens lost my vote on Women's right.
Labour lost my vote by being shit on Brexit

so I need a LOT of time to think

I realise that I answered the wrong question. Not how many in my family have missed out but why?

The answer to that is potentially not having their professional qualifications recognised in the countries they are working in. Being resident there with existing contracts honoured may protect them for now, but may not do when contracts come up for renewal - unless the countries concerned choose to recognise the qualifications. They might, but it's an unknown at present. Or that the countries concerned can't find an EU/EEA citizen to do the job.

I think the musician nephew will be OK because what matters is which instruments he plays and how well, not a professional certificate from a regulatory body, but he will be hamstrung by not being able to cross borders easily and not being able to take his instruments across easily - unless that's been included in the deal Johnson has negotiated.

All these sorts of people could be considered as soft ambassadors for our country. Johnson blabs about making the country world beating but has helped to close the door to such influences.

Oops put that on the wrong thread, but it works here just as well.

I have just learnt a new German word:
Hurrapatriotismus: (pejorative) exaggerated patriotism, especially in connection with war; praising your country saying it's the best while ignoring evidence to the contrary; jingoism.

For a time, I thought I would lose my status as a civil servant, until France changed the rules about having to be an EU citizen. It was bleak. I worked bloody hard to get my job, taking competitive exams and writing a 600-page PhD thesis in French.
I definitely think that British citizens doing my job, inculcating a love of the language, history and culture to EU students, are soft power ambassadors. The Erasmus withdrawal has made that a bit harder, though, as I cannot justify or defend the decision. I never criticise the UK - even BJ, Farage et. al - in front of my students, but I have no idea how to discuss the Erasmus issue calmly with the hundred or more students who are waiting to find out whether their plans have been screwed over, and to whom I need to confirm that they have indeed.

I can envisage that individual countries might say that they recognise UK qualifications gained before 31st December 2020, which would give protection to people already in post. That won't help people yet to qualify.

Yet Leavers wonder why we are still annoyed and we should get over it and get behind it.

Totally agree listening quietly we need to focus on a good relationship now with EU instead of re running the referendum.

The whole 48/52 split really needs to be forgotten. nearly 5 years on from the vote then a few tens of thousands of older voters will have died. Which would reduce the %age for Leave. And by the same token, 5 years worth of new voters (now 23 years old) have entered the frame, which would tend to up the Remain %age.

I think the regional splits are far more important and will be far more significant as time goes on. The NI and Scotland votes indicate a deep divergence from England's political culture and discourse, and view of itself. The fact that NI voters disregarded DUP and general Unionist leanings to vote Remain is very important.

sostenueto
Against my better judgement I'm posting on the Brexit Arms at the moment.

Brexit is done.

The only way the UK can move forwards is to deal with the issues
while limiting the damage

so we ALL need to constantly call out policies that increase division and inequality
every day

I have just read the Conservative Woman screed - it's a parody, right??
And the rest of the articles from that page too?

Links in the page:
The chin-wag, with James Delingpole and Laura Perrins
Get honest, get fired … or even worse
Give this woke nonsense the red card
And they call this freedom
Today’s talking point
Why do we need so many more houses? Immigration
The not-so exceptional year of Covid
Daily News Digest
Surrender of the conservatives
New Year book review: When childhood was an adventure

Take a look at this - it will make your eyeballs peel:
www.conservativewoman.co.uk/and-they-call-this-freedom/
The comments section... [holy crap]

[quote WorriedMutha]This is an interesting (and compelling) take on the 'way back' to the EU. Not through a referendum but through the framework set out in the agreement. The EU have led us to an open door when we are ready to walk through it.
twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1344592194930438144[/quote]
Very interesting.

But I can’t agree with him that the Tories are a dead cert for 2024. It’s far too early to make that call. We have 3 years of the fallout of Covid + Brexit + astonishing incompetence to wade through first.

@mathanxiety

I have just read the Conservative Woman screed - it's a parody, right?? And the rest of the articles from that page too?

Links in the page:
The chin-wag, with James Delingpole and Laura Perrins
Get honest, get fired … or even worse
Give this woke nonsense the red card
And they call this freedom
Today’s talking point
Why do we need so many more houses? Immigration
The not-so exceptional year of Covid
Daily News Digest
Surrender of the conservatives
New Year book review: When childhood was an adventure

Take a look at this - it will make your eyeballs peel:
www.conservativewoman.co.uk/and-they-call-this-freedom/
The comments section... [holy crap]

It reads like a long drunk Haiku.

And we just don't know how a new American President will play out, plus there will be Local and Holyrood Elections in five months time. I think that will be quite key, especially in Scotland. I think we read too much into Local Elections in England at least. The party representing the Govt of the day can get a drubbing in them, but come a GE a year later, and it's back to the old story.

@ListeningQuietly

sostenueto Against my better judgement I'm posting on the Brexit Arms at the moment.

Brexit is done.

The only way the UK can move forwards is to deal with the issues
while limiting the damage

so we ALL need to constantly call out policies that increase division and inequality
every day

Brexit isn’t done. Far from it. It’s only just starting. We don’t even know what it is yet.

"Brexit isn’t done. Far from it. It’s only just starting. We don’t even know what it is yet."

Agreed, but nothing will change immediately for most people so who cares. That is said with sadness and all that.